Viv Richards & Allan Donald vs Brian Lara & Curtly Ambrose

[capt_Luffy]

I got Gibbs above Kumble personally, 10 years into his career Gibbs has 180 @ 24, that's ATG pacer numbers

ATVG at best. And that also means he kinda sucked for the rest of his wickets which evens it out.

 

[Johan]

I apologise for my behaviour. I do disagree with your views on this particular subject matter.

understandable, have a nice day.

 

[Johan]

ATVG at best. And that also means he kinda sucked for the rest of his wickets which evens it out.

his career has 4 phases

1958-1968: 183 @ 24.4
1969-1972: 29 @ 56.03 (wtf, also, barely played in 71/72, none in 70)
1973-1975: 90 @ 28.12

I need to figure out what happened in that mid portion, because ain't no way.

 

[subshakerz]

His SA tour was disaster in context. If the question really is non helpful conditions, none of the series was such. All 4 series had highest wicket takers (who averaged less than Laker) who were spinners. Benaud took 27 to his 15. In WI Ramadhin and Ferguson were superior. And his SA, again was disastrous. He was the worst of the frontline bowlers. Tayfield and Wardle ran mayhem there

Disaster is what Ashwin experienced in SA.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Disaster is what Ashwin experienced in SA.

Nope. Laker was actually much worse in context.

 

[subshakerz]

Kumble clears himself of the Gibbs/Underwood/Tayfield/Chandra/Bedi tier for me.
(Probably Lyon belongs to that tier as well)

I agree..Lyon definitely does. Underrated on CW sadly.

 

[sayon basak]

Nope. Laker was actually much worse in context.

You could also say that Maharaj averaged 65 in those condition.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Moderate really. Better than definitely Laker and co, who always played in Spin condition.

Stats for spinners in series that Laker played in Australia, SA, WI:

SA 1956/57:
Tayfield- 37 wickets @17
Wardle- 26 wickets @13
Laker- 11 wickets @29

WI 1947/48:
Wilf Ferguson (???)- 23 wickets @24
Laker- 18 wickets @30

WI 1953/54:
Ramadhin- 23 wickets @24
Bailey- 14 wickets @32
Laker- 14 wickets @33

Ashes 1958/59:
Benaud- 31 wickets @18
Laker- 15 wickets @21

This is a very underwhelming away record because he was out-bowled by all the good to decent spinners in those series and even by some random dude called Wilf Ferguson on a tour of WI. Don't buy the idea that Ashwin's away record is somehow worse than this. Pitches in Aus/Eng/NZ/SA have also gotten far far less spin friendly in this era too. Laker/Grimmett are massively overrated bowlers who have gaping holes in their records that are not questioned as much as modern spinners because people don't even go to the effort of looking it up.

 

[subshakerz]

Nope. Laker was actually much worse in context.

Not really. Ashwin had at least two games that were served to him on a platter to help India win and did nothing. Besides that was not even support bowler level.

 

[capt_Luffy]

You could also say that Maharaj averaged 65 in those condition.

And Laker actually had the worst average and lowest wickets among all the frontline bowlers, including Saffa. Their best batsman was ****ing Trevor Goddard ffs

 

[subshakerz]

Stats for spinners in series that Laker played in Australia, SA, WI:

SA 1956/57:
Tayfield- 37 wickets @17
Wardle- 26 wickets @13
Laker- 11 wickets @29

WI 1947/48:
Wilf Ferguson (???)- 23 wickets @24
Laker- 18 wickets @30

WI 1953/54:
Ramadhin- 23 wickets @24
Bailey- 14 wickets @32
Laker- 14 wickets @33

Ashes 1958/59:
Benaud- 31 wickets @18
Laker- 15 wickets @21

This is a very underwhelming away record because he was out-bowled by all the good to decent spinners in those series and even by some random dude called Wilf Ferguson on a tour of WI. Don't buy the idea that Ashwin's away record is somehow worse than this. Pitches in Aus/Eng/NZ/SA have also gotten far far less spin friendly in this era too.

I don't think either Laker or Ashwin should be rated that highly.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Not really. Ashwin had at least two games that were served to him on a platter to help India win and did nothing. Besides that was not even support bowler level.

England were better bowling a part time spinner in his place.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I don't think either Laker or Ashwin should be rated that highly.

You had Laker as an ATG a few months prior lol.

 

[subshakerz]

You could also say that Maharaj averaged 65 in those condition.

Ok but we are putting Ashwin on a level of a supposed top 5 ever spinner so comparing with Maharaj doesn't really cut it.

 

[Johan]

And Laker actually had the worst average and lowest wickets among all the frontline bowlers, including Saffa. Their best batsman was ****ing Trevor Goddard ffs

If Compton was young, he'd have averaged 55 that series

 

[subshakerz]

You had Laker as an ATG a few months prior lol.

Yeah you convinced me he shouldn't be that high. Only three ATG spinners, Warne, Murali and O Reilly.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I'd go : 1) Murali/Warne 3) OReilly 4) Tayfield 5) Gibbs 6) Ashwin 7) Chandrasekhar 8) Kumble 9) Lyon 10) Grimmett/Underwood

Lyon could be higher too tbh. Not much gap between 6-10

 

[capt_Luffy]

Ok but we are putting Ashwin on a level of a supposed top 5 ever spinner so comparing with Maharaj doesn't really cut it.

Ferguson does?? And Maharaj, at his home, averaged a healthy 15 runs more.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I'd go : 1) Murali/Warne 3) OReilly 4) Tayfield 5) Gibbs 6) Ashwin 7) Chandrasekhar 8) Kumble 9) Lyon 10) Underwood

Lyon could be higher too tbh. Not much gap between 6-10

Grimmett should be there somewhere atleast.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Grimmett should be there somewhere atleast.

Edited him in. 10 at best