Viv Richards & Allan Donald vs Brian Lara & Curtly Ambrose

[DrWolverine]

Kumble clears himself of the Gibbs/Underwood/Tayfield/Chandra/Bedi tier for me.
(Probably Lyon belongs to that tier as well)

Grimmett played 19 Tests in Australia, 13 Tests in England(Avg of 30) and 5 in SouthAfrica. He played 22 Tests and averaged 32 against England.

I am not sure how to compare him against modern day spinners like Kumble, Ashwin & Lyon.

 

[sayon basak]

Grimmett should be there somewhere atleast.

Guess Laker should at least make the top 10.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Edited him in. 10 at best

Disagree on that but alright.

 

[subshakerz]

I'd go : 1) Murali/Warne 3) OReilly 4) Tayfield 5) Gibbs 6) Ashwin 7) Chandrasekhar 8) Kumble 9) Lyon 10) Grimmett/Underwood

Lyon could be higher too tbh. Not much gap between 6-10

Honestly after O Reilly you can make a case for any sort of order, I have come to that conclusion.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Honestly after O Reilly you can make a case for any sort of order, I have come to that conclusion.

I mean, I won't disagree too heavily with that.

 

[Johan]

Disagree on that but alright.

...

 

[Johan]

Grimmett played 19 Tests in Australia, 13 Tests in England(Avg of 30) and 5 in SouthAfrica. He played 22 Tests and averaged 32 against England.

I am not sure how to compare him against modern day spinners like Kumble, Ashwin & Lyon.

England batting was stronger than Australia at the time, and Australia had Bradman, hope that puts it in perspective.

 

[DrWolverine]

Honestly after O Reilly you can make a case for any sort of order, I have come to that conclusion.

1. Murali/Warne
2. Reilly
3. Rest

 

[peterhrt]

his career has 4 phases

1958-1968: 183 @ 24.4
1969-1972: 29 @ 56.03 (wtf, also, barely played in 71/72, none in 70)
1973-1975: 90 @ 28.12

I need to figure out what happened in that mid portion, because ain't no way.

The reason for the blip was county cricket. Gibbs' weakness was bowling round the wicket. He didn't like it. But he was a big spinner of the ball and to get lbws in England he had to do it, especially with all the left-handers in the county game. He lost rhythm and form and was dropped by West Indies.

Gibbs had done well in Tests in England in the past but his spell with Warwickshire from 1967 to 1973 only included one good season in 1971. He also spent a season with South Australia in 1969-70 which wasn't successful either.

After a good home series against Australia in 1973 some of the old form returned.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Actually on face value, Lara’s away record seems very good not great. But a minute ago, someone put the RPI stuff into my head which had me thinking. I was curious to seenhow Lara compares using that metric ie the actual runs scored away. I'm going to show lara relative to a select few players:

Lara : 47.40

Sachin: 49.5
Smith: 49.6
Waugh S: 43.5
Kallis: 45
Dravid: 46.3
Hutton: 49.8
Viv: 47

The most surprising was S Waugh who averages 55 away but actually scored way less. Anyway, Lara does have his issues away but imo, it's not that far off his near contemporaries and other greats in terms of actual output.

Any comments on the above Subz??

 

[sayon basak]

Any comments on the above Subz??

Take opposition into account.

 

[Thala_0710]

Any comments on the above Subz??

Waugh batted a lot at 5-6 and avg is boosted very heavily by not outs. His record in the 90s gets a bit overrated imo although his record against the best teams is pretty good.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Take opposition into account.

I Didn't bother. Might try when I have them chance.

 

[subshakerz]

Any comments on the above Subz??

Obviously depends on opposition. It's a very raw stat.

 

[kyear2]

Subz is yet, to this day, still unable to name the quality pacemen that Sachin and Lara both faced where Sachin did significantly better. Yes, Sachin has 100s vs Donald and the Ws but both players still averaged in the 30s. Bring in Bond and it's the same.

Exactly.

 

[kyear2]

I like how you change goalposts. You yourself admitted Sachin did better btw and the point always was that while Sachin didn't dominate them, Lara struggled against them.

Do you really want to rehash this?
.

How did you do better if you averaged the same?

 

[kyear2]

I went back to Hobbs after Johan convinced me he would still be top drawer even in this era.

Which thread, interested in the read.

I don't doubt Hobb's greatness for a second. But the period on which he established said greatness was a period where I don't even rate cricketers from and he's just the exceptional exception.

And we can't see him, well never be able to see and judge what he was capable of.

But Hain, don't doubt his greatness for a second. And by some of my own metrics he's a worthy selection.

 

[subshakerz]

How did you do better if you averaged the same?

Because that's against the team not the bowler. And you look at the context of the series and if they played in their prime. And also you see how they played.

Exactly.

No he made that up, I never claimed that.

 

[subshakerz]

Which thread, interested in the read.

I don't doubt Hobb's greatness for a second. But the period on which he established said greatness was a period where I don't even rate cricketers from and he's just the exceptional exception.

And we can't see him, well never be able to see and judge what he was capable of.

But Hain, don't doubt his greatness for a second. And by some of my own metrics he's a worthy selection.

If you don't doubt his greatness then you have to believe he can transcend eras. Maybe there might be a shortfall even if does since we cant see him playing but I am fairly confident given his abilities it wouldn't make him less than top tier. Just don't think he can be no.2 without footage though.

 

[Coronis]

If you don't doubt his greatness then you have to believe he can transcend eras. Maybe there might be a shortfall even if does since we cant see him playing but I am fairly confident given his abilities it wouldn't make him less than top tier. Just don't think he can be no.2 without footage though.

I just don’t think Tendulkar can be no. 2 without uncovered wickets.