Viv Richards & Allan Donald vs Brian Lara & Curtly Ambrose

[honestbharani]

There is a reason I feel the need to ignore these threads but somebody up there was saying Lara was not proven against spin or some other idiocy.

Here is something from someone who did play spin really well AND smashed Indian spinners in India.

Babar has major spin demons to overcome, and oppositions know this well

India, Pakistan's next opponents in the Champions Trophy, will almost inevitably seek to expose this frailty

www.espncricinfo.com

When the masters of playing spin are at their peak, the thoughts that dominate the higher functions of the mind are not necessarily about the next ball, the pitch, how fast it is turning, how much flight is being given, and how fast or slow it comes, but where the fielders are, how they manipulate them and by extension the opposition captain.

Here's Shivnarine Chanderpaul, a very good player of spin, talking about Brian Lara, who was arguably the best spin player ever (no one dominated Shane Warne and Muttiah Muralidaran, quite like Lara):

"I know Brian, when he bats, he hits the ball behind point, very hard. Sometimes he got spin on the ball, and sometimes he doesn't put spin on the ball. And he does it deliberately. It depends on where the guy on the point boundary is fielding. If the guy on the boundary is out square, then he puts spin on the ball so it keep running away further behind and the guy can't catch it. And sometimes they put him behind, and Brian hit it with no spin so it go in front for four. He still cuts the ball, but he does not put spin on the ball. He's an amazing batter. Serious."

Lara's record against India is a factor of multiple things. He hardly ever played India in India for that to be considered any sort of meaningful stat (and was sawn off two times in the series he did play) and there is context to the 97 and 2002 series that no one wants to consider. He is EASILY the best player of spin from the time I have watched cricket and he is the best batsman I have seen, though that competition is a lot closer than the "batting against spin" one.

 

[subshakerz]

There is a reason I feel the need to ignore these threads but somebody up there was saying Lara was not proven against spin

Who said that?

All I know is that Lara said he didn't like to face flat spinners like Kumble, Harbi and Saqlain.

 

[sayon basak]

All I know is that Lara said he didn't like to face flat spinners like Kumble, Harbi and Saqlain.

What he did matters more than what he said tbf.

 

[subshakerz]

What he did matters more than what he said tbf.

I mean, kinda, but he didn't dominate them, so what he says is relevant too to understand why.

 

[honestbharani]

jelly idiots cant learn

 

[kyear2]

Or that folks who never saw Waugh bat assume he was selfish and scored easy runs, which isn't true at all.

Yes. A more dominant player. Also a bias as Waugh wasn't aesthetic.

Sounds a lot like your critiques of a certain South African all rounder.

 

[subshakerz]

Sounds a lot like your critiques of a certain South African all rounder.

Please stop your BS.

You are openly calling Kallis selfish here? I have issue with Kallis but I will always acknowledge him a consummate teamman.

No. I never said he was selfish.

I said he lacked the ability to dominate like real ATG bats. If a bat can't dominate attacks, that is a valid reason to not put him in the ATG status.

I never called Kallis selfish.

He was defensive and negative which doesn't gel at all with an Aussie batting lineup. Keep that stuff back in SA.

Let's just leave it at the agreement that it is unfair to denigrate Kallis based on what we speculate would be motives for his style of play. I don't call him selfish.

Back to Steve Waugh, I think it is fair to say that he wasn't the most aggressive bat, but I have never seen a better pressure player. He always seemed to save his best for the big occasions too.

Technically and otherwise, Kallis was simply better to watch though. But he is way to safe and conservative a player to rate that great.

 

[kyear2]

What if you are more suitable down the order?

Like Chanderpaul?

There's no such thing, if you're more suitable down the order it means you are basically hiding.

 

[subshakerz]

Like Chanderpaul?

There's no such thing, if you're more suitable down the order it means you are basically hiding.

So was Allan Border hiding? You honestly believe that?

 

[kyear2]

Hutton>

I don't get the Sutcliffe adoration, never have.

He's never been rated along with the other English greats by the pundits, writers nor peers. He batted in the easiest period of batting in history, could never get dismissed lbw if the ball even pitched outside off, yet still barred at a strike rate in the low 30's.