subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Laxman would get eaten at no.3
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Waqar Younis vs Virat Kohli
- Thread starter DrWolverine
- Start date
capt_Luffy
International Coach
He has some of his absolute best at top 3
BazBall21
International Captain
He'd struggle at 3 in England.
capt_Luffy
International Coach
Probs some, but better than the rest and any other options we have. The other option is 2 abysmal openers and getting 0 output from Sehwag. Dude wasn't made to open in SEN conditions.
PlayerComparisons
International Captain
If cook can average 45 as an opener then I think laxman would be fine at 3 tbh
BazBall21
International Captain
Cook would very likely have struggled facing England in England. There's a difference between that and facing less experienced attacks in England, especially in batting eras.
A bit different in the 2017-2021 period when improved assistance was there for a bigger sample of attacks, though England obviously had a weaker batting lineup then too.
PlayerComparisons
International Captain
My bad. I thought we were just talking about them in general, not specifically against Eng
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
1. Tendulkar
2. Imran
3. Muralitharan
4. Gavaskar
5. Akram
6. Kapil Dev
7. Dravid
8. Sangakkara
9. Waqar
10. Bumrah
2. Imran
3. Muralitharan
4. Gavaskar
5. Akram
6. Kapil Dev
7. Dravid
8. Sangakkara
9. Waqar
10. Bumrah
BazBall21
International Captain
Yeah. Cook would probably average a bit more. Laxman was more of a middle order player and didn't grow up in England.
Rob Wesley
School Boy/Girl Captain
Waqar’s stats are highly inflated via minnow bashing.
Remove SL, BD and Zim between 1990-1994 and remove Zim and BD between 1995-2003. He will be left with a total of 68 tests and 263 wickets at avg of 27. That will put him at the same level as Mitchell Starc and Mohammad Shami.
Remove SL, BD and Zim between 1990-1994 and remove Zim and BD between 1995-2003. He will be left with a total of 68 tests and 263 wickets at avg of 27. That will put him at the same level as Mitchell Starc and Mohammad Shami.
Last edited:
sayon basak
International Captain
Exclude their numbers against minnows as well.
Rob Wesley
School Boy/Girl Captain
Starc has 285 wickets at 30.5 with 11 5fers in 77 tests after excluding WI and BD and also excluding pink ball tests.
Shami has 185 wickets at 29.5 with 5 5fers in 51 tests with same filter applied as Starc.
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
These stats are now excluding minnows but doesn’t present us insights on home advantage of bowling. A place like South Africa may be bowling friendly and allows pacers to pick a lot of wickets but Asia may not allow the same.
sayon basak
International Captain
Why is SL included?Starc has 285 wickets at 30.5 after excluding WI and BD and also excluding pink ball tests.
Shami has 187 wickets at 29.5 with same filter applied as Starc.
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
stats.espncricinfo.com
Rob Wesley
School Boy/Girl Captain
SL is not a minnow. I have been strict and excluded WI and BD.
Waqar is ahead though, his average is 27 and that’s better. But if I exclude NZ who were the next worse team, it will look a lot worse for him.
That's actual output against non-minnows. I feel it gets a lot worse if you take away stats against non-minnows. Have you tried finding away avg of Waqar against non-minnows?
That's why when some posters start putting Donald and Waqar in the same tier, it's puzzling. I think people forget to filter minnows and Waqar has disproportionate number of cheap wickets against minnows. Samer issue I had when some posters were debating Bumrah vs Waqar and citing Waqar's wickets tally at good avg. There is no equal equal situation here as well. When difference in class is so wide, two bowlers sholdn't be compared. Longevity etc is just noise when comparing bowlers with avg of 21 vs avg of 27. Away is even more lopsided.
Shami and Starc has lesser output than Waqar, but imagine Shami and Starc playing in older era. Both can use reverse very well and would have ran riots in older era.
To compare apple to apple, what's Waqar's away avg against non-minnows looks like compared to Starc/Shami away avg against non-minnows. Waqar may still come out ahead or fall in the same range, I have not looked at it before. I will not remove NZ from Waqar. NZ was the weakest non-minnows, but a non-minnow team. Just remove SL pre 1995 and remove BD/Zim for all periods.
I was curious so here you go,
Waqar's away record against non-minnows: 139 wickets 4043 runs [ away record agaisnt Ind, Aus, WI, SA, Eng, NZ ] + 11 wickets 244 rus in SL after 1995.
Waqar away against non-minnows: Avg 28.6 - 150 wickets
Starc away against non-minnows: Avg 28.3 - 134 wickets
Shami away against non-minnows: Avg 30.3 - 145 wickets
@Rob Wesley : You were not far off. Waqar's away output is in middle of Starc and Shami.
Waqar's away record against non-minnows: 139 wickets 4043 runs [ away record agaisnt Ind, Aus, WI, SA, Eng, NZ ] + 11 wickets 244 rus in SL after 1995.
Waqar away against non-minnows: Avg 28.6 - 150 wickets
Starc away against non-minnows: Avg 28.3 - 134 wickets
Shami away against non-minnows: Avg 30.3 - 145 wickets
@Rob Wesley : You were not far off. Waqar's away output is in middle of Starc and Shami.
sayon basak
International Captain
What if the non-minnow team's Waqar faced away from home were stronger?
capt_Luffy
International Coach
Zimbabwe won a Test series in Pakistan in the mid 90s and gave a good game to most teams they faced.
Coronis
International Coach
Why do you keep bolding everything
Rob Wesley
School Boy/Girl Captain
have you included BD and wi for Starc/shami?