Waqar Younis vs Virat Kohli

[Johan]

General Test standard is averaging 34 odd lol.

so basically Graeme Smith at home, smh @sayon basak

 

[subshakerz]

General Test standard is averaging 34 odd lol.

No that's minimum test standard, but it won't get you into all sides.

But a 40 so bat is not worldclass in the common parlance which is meant to be more exclusive. It's just another way of saying 'top class cricketer'.

 

[Coronis]

I think you are confusing general test standard with worldclass. The latter means among the best in the world at the time.

In your opinion.

For example if I’m looking at openers specifically over the past 5 years.

The average test opener over the past 5 years has averaged 32.84. So something like that should be the minimum aim for a test opener.

So basically this past 5 years Warner was at minimum test standard. Guys like Elgar and Markram are guys I’d consider test standard. And the guys like Duckett, Iman, Karunaratne, Khawaja, Jaiswal are ones I’d consider worldclass and above.

You seem to be using worldclass as a higher level, like what we might term as great/ATG over a career

 

[capt_Luffy]

No that's minimum test standard, but it won't get you into all sides.

But a 40 so bat is not worldclass in the common parlance which is meant to be more exclusive. It's just another way of saying 'top class cricketer'.

Low/mid 40s is World Class; mid 30s is general Test standard (will let you in in over 60% of teams) and low 30s is minimum Test standard.

Aka by career:

Herschelle Gibbs
Hansie Cronje
Kenneth Viljoen

 

[subshakerz]

Low/mid 40s is World Class; mid 30s is general Test standard (will let you in in over 60% of teams) and low 30s is minimum Test standard.

Aka by career:

Herschelle Gibbs
Hansie Cronje
Kenneth Viljoen

Yeah I don't know where you are getting your world class definition

 

[subshakerz]

You seem to be using worldclass as a higher level, like what we might term as great/ATG over a career

Which is pretty much how the term is used. For example, when they say someone is a worldclass bowler, they aren't referring to regular Frontline bowler but one of the best currently in operation in the world.

 

[ataraxia]

Which is pretty much how the term is used. For example, when they say someone is a worldclass bowler, they aren't referring to regular Frontline bowler but one of the best currently in operation in the world.

I don't think this proves your point. "Kemar Roach is a world-class bowler. Keshav Maharaj is a world-class bowler. Shaheen Shah Afridi is a world-class bowler." – I would not take issue with any of those statements, and those guys are similar in quality to ~42-averaging batters these days.

 

[Randomfan]

I think you are confusing general test standard with worldclass. The latter means a standard among the best in the world at the time. So averaging 50 would be generally a must.

Many 10 years periods have only 2-3 batsmen with 50 plus avg. World class is never used for only top 2-3 batsmen or bowlers in world.

You are confusing world class with ATG level output.

 

[subshakerz]

Many 10 years periods have only 2-3 batsmen with 50 plus avg. World class is never used for only top 2-3 batsmen or bowlers in world.

You are confusing world class with ATG level output.

I never said only 2-3 bats but yeah a 50 plus average is worldclass.

 

[sayon basak]

I think you are confusing general test standard with worldclass. The latter means a standard among the best in the world at the time. So averaging 50 would be generally a must.

What if he averages 49?

 

[PlayerComparisons]

What if he averages 49?

Then he’s not world class

 

[sayon basak]

Then he’s not world class

Yeah sounds logical to me.

 

[Randomfan]

I never said only 2-3 bats but yeah a 50 plus average is worldclass.

It's the same thing. Many 10 years have only 2-3 bastmen with 50 plus avg. Also, 50 avg is very different in the flat era of 00s to lets say 90s. You got 15-20 with 50 avg in 00s vs only 3-4 in 90s. Anyway, you are the first person I have come across using 50 Avg for world class as cut off.



Batsmen list with 20-35 tons in test cricket with sub 50 avg.

Jaya, Cook, Kohli, Amla, Clarke, Smith , KP etc. Every single of them were world class batsmen.

 

[subshakerz]

I don't think this proves your point. "Kemar Roach is a world-class bowler. Keshav Maharaj is a world-class bowler. Shaheen Shah Afridi is a world-class bowler." – I would not take issue with any of those statements, and those guys are similar in quality to ~42-averaging batters these days.

I don't think any of those qualifies as worldclass at the moment, especially Maharj.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Shaheen is closer to being a world class batsman than being a world class bowler atm

 

[subshakerz]

It's the same thing. Many 10 years have only 2-3 bastmen with 50 plus avg. Also, 50 avg is very different in the flat era of 00s to lets say 90s. You got 15-20 with 50 avg in 00s vs only 3-4 in 90s. Anyway, you are the first person I have come across using 50 Avg for world class as cut off.



Batsmen list with 20-35 tons in test cricket with sub 50 avg.

Jaya, Cook, Kohli, Amla, Clarke, Smith , KP etc. Every single of them were world class batsmen.

View attachment 44987

All of them had phases where they were worldclass. All of them now are ATVG/national greats.

We don't have to be as extreme stringent about a subjective term. 50 average is simply a useful mark.

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah sounds logical to me.

49 can still be worldclass. It depends how he is playing and the era standards. Certainly in the 90s a 49 averaging bat can qualify.

 

[subshakerz]

Here's my own qualifications of players:

ATGs: Among the best of any era - eg Sobers, Tendulkar, McGrath etc.

ATVG/Greats: Among the best their country has produced but short of ATG elite - eg Waqar, Dravid, Kohli

Worldclass: Among the best of their time but limited to particular periods of career or cricketers with short career duration - eg Shoaib, Bishop, etc.

Class/Frontline: Mainstay bats and bowlers of teams with very good returns but not among the best of the era - McDermott, Zaheer Khan, David Boon, etc.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Here's my own qualifications of players:

ATGs: Among the best of any era - eg Sobers, Tendulkar, McGrath etc.

ATVG/Greats: Among the best their country has produced but short of ATG elite - eg Waqar, Dravid, Kohli

Worldclass: Among the best of their time but limited to particular periods of career or cricketers with short career duration - eg Shoaib, Bishop, etc.

Class/Frontline: Mainstay bats and bowlers of teams with very good returns but not among the best of the era - McDermott, Zaheer Khan, David Boon, etc.

Your definition of World Class is simply wrong man.

 

[subshakerz]

Your definition of World Class is simply wrong man.

Based on what? I am basing it how I see it commonly used.

Which early 40s bats do you see described as they play as worldclass batsmen? Was Brett Lee considered a worldclass test bowler?