Brian lara vs Steve Waugh

[Narayana]

View attachment 44880

Md azharuddin - the real best Indian batsman in away chases -1145 runs, 40.89 avg, 75.82 SR

 

[sayon basak]

Azharuddin was better odi batsmen than sachin.

 

[subshakerz]

This vote just how how underrated Waugh is on CW. I can understand some rating Waugh behind Tendulkar but he has a clear case against Lara IMO.

I mean, his series in 95 against Ambrose and Walsh was an ATG series. He along with Blewett batted an entire day against peak Donald and Pollock in SA. Three great back to back series against Wasim. Plenty of Ashes heroics including his twin tons in Edgbaston 97.

Even with his low series, I don't think it is particularly close with him and Lara (even with that 99 series) in that decade and I think he is being downplayed.

 

[pardus]

some dumb double standard, Sachin's output against Donald is legit lower than Lara's, the same logic for Waugh > Lara applies to Sachin too, not like Waugh did very well against the Ws either

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

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I have always maintained that if persistent cherrypicking is done for one (Lara's failure against Donald etc.), then the same standards should be applied for judging everyone.

I call it cherrypicking because Lara has had great successes against great pace attacks on many other occasions (like for example, scoring a match-winning Test century against McGrath on Perth pitch of the 1990s, where Aussies - including Waugh - couldn't handle Ambrose on that very same pitch).

IMO Tendulkar's series performances against South Africa - with Donald in their attack - are just as mediocre as Lara's, if not worse, given that he played multiple series against Donald while Lara essentially played just one series (Donald was clearly past his best and pretty much irrelevant in the 2001 WI-RSA series and in any case he never got Lara's wicket even once in that entire series).

Against the common great pace attacks that 3 of them (Waugh, Lara and Tendulkar) faced, which essentially are the great pace attacks of the 90s, statistically Waugh has had far far more success than either Lara or Tendulkar.
It is a no-contest if you keep your favoritsm aside and are truly objective. I would even go to the point of saying no comparison.

Between Lara and Tendulkar - against these great attacks - it becomes subjective.
Statistically, they were both very mediocre (considering the standards that are set for such ATG batsmen), so you then have the freedom to invent your own criteria to make the player you like the most (or hate the most) as the best (or the worst).

 

[kyear2]

I have always maintained that if persistent cherrypicking is done for one (Lara's failure against Donald etc.), then the same standards should be applied for judging everyone.

I call it cherrypicking because Lara has had great successes against great pace attacks on many other occasions (like for example, scoring a match-winning Test century against McGrath on Perth pitch of the 1990s, where Aussies - including Waugh - couldn't handle Ambrose on that very same pitch).

IMO Tendulkar's series performances against South Africa - with Donald in their attack - are just as mediocre as Lara's, if not worse, given that he played multiple series against Donald while Lara essentially played just one series (Donald was clearly past his best and pretty much irrelevant in the 2001 WI-RSA series and in any case he never got Lara's wicket even once in that entire series).

Against the common great pace attacks that 3 of them (Waugh, Lara and Tendulkar) faced, which essentially are the great pace attacks of the 90s, statistically Waugh has had far far more success than either Lara or Tendulkar.
It is a no-contest if you keep your favoritsm aside and are truly objective. I would even go to the point of saying no comparison.

Between Lara and Tendulkar - against these great attacks - it becomes subjective.
Statistically, they were both very mediocre (considering the standards that are set for such ATG batsmen), so you then have the freedom to invent your own criteria to make the player you like the most (or hate the most) as the best (or the worst).

Exactly.

 

[honestbharani]

Salty is just salty as usual that Lara is actually the best bat over the last 35 years or so.

 

[Narayana]

Salty is just salty as usual that Lara is actually the best bat over the last 35 years or so.

How , why and on what basis?

 

[subshakerz]

IMO Tendulkar's series performances against South Africa - with Donald in their attack - are just as mediocre as Lara's, if not worse, given that he played multiple series against Donald while Lara essentially played just one series (Donald was clearly past his best and pretty much irrelevant in the 2001 WI-RSA series and in any case he never got Lara's wicket even once in that entire series).

If you look without context, only then it seems Lara and Tendulkar against Donald are equal.

But Tendulkar played Donald as a teen, Lara didn't.

Tendulkar scored two tons against Donald, Lara didn't.

Tendulkar never got owned again and again by Donald in a series, Lara did.

As usual, you critics confuse performance against SA in that period with performance against Donald.

 

[Johan]

nice let's ignore the century Tendulkar made against Donald in 92 because "teen"

 

[govinda indian fan]

If you look without context, only then it seems Lara and Tendulkar against Donald are equal.

But Tendulkar played Donald as a teen, Lara didn't.

Tendulkar scored two tons against Donald, Lara didn't.

Tendulkar never got owned again and again by Donald in a series, Lara did.

As usual, you critics confuse performance against SA in that period with performance against Donald.

Yes and tendulkar never failed in sa except 2006/7 series

 

[subshakerz]

Against the common great pace attacks that 3 of them (Waugh, Lara and Tendulkar) faced, which essentially are the great pace attacks of the 90s, statistically Waugh has had far far more success than either Lara or Tendulkar.

True yet Waugh doesn't get sufficient credit for this.

 

[subshakerz]

nice let's ignore the century Tendulkar made against Donald in 92 because "teen"

No anything scored as a teen is a bonus achievement. Nobody should seriously putting the same expectations of an 18/19 year old touring SA for the first time.

 

[Johan]

No anything scored as a teen is a bonus achievement

lol, that just seems like you're clutching at straws

 

[subshakerz]

lol, that just seems like you're clutching at straws

No it's not. Nobody should seriously put the same expectations for a 18 year old touring SA for the first time and then demeriting him for not averaging 45.

The fact that he got away with a ton against Donald in that tour at that age is a phenomenal achievement.

 

[Narayana]

No it's not. Nobody should seriously put the same expectations for a 18 year old touring SA for the first time and then demeriting him for not averaging 45.

The fact that he got away with a ton against Donald in that tour at that age is a phenomenal achievement.

What was the age of Donald at that time, or when did Donald debuted?

 

[subshakerz]

How , why and on what basis?

Vibes.

 

[Johan]

No it's not. Nobody should seriously put the same expectations for a 18 year old touring SA for the first time and then demeriting him for not averaging 45.

The fact that he got away with a ton against Donald in that tour at that age is a phenomenal achievement.

few months ago he already had made two tons in Australia and was already on his way to being a great bat, but Okay, Prime Sachin against Donald: 456 @ 32.57.

 

[subshakerz]

What was the age of Donald at that time, or when did Donald debuted?

Donald was 26/27 and had debuted in 92 but had been playing county cricket for a long time prior and was a fairly seasoned bowled even out of the gate.

 

[subshakerz]

few months ago he already had made two tons in Australia and was already on his way to being a great bat, but Okay, Prime Sachin against Donald: 456 @ 32.57.

Yes and out thrice in 7 tests.

Lara 5 times in 98 series.

And Tendulkar was still a teen. That whole phase should be considered as a prodigy.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

I have always maintained that if persistent cherrypicking is done for one (Lara's failure against Donald etc.), then the same standards should be applied for judging everyone.

I call it cherrypicking because Lara has had great successes against great pace attacks on many other occasions (like for example, scoring a match-winning Test century against McGrath on Perth pitch of the 1990s, where Aussies - including Waugh - couldn't handle Ambrose on that very same pitch).

IMO Tendulkar's series performances against South Africa - with Donald in their attack - are just as mediocre as Lara's, if not worse, given that he played multiple series against Donald while Lara essentially played just one series (Donald was clearly past his best and pretty much irrelevant in the 2001 WI-RSA series and in any case he never got Lara's wicket even once in that entire series).

Against the common great pace attacks that 3 of them (Waugh, Lara and Tendulkar) faced, which essentially are the great pace attacks of the 90s, statistically Waugh has had far far more success than either Lara or Tendulkar.
It is a no-contest if you keep your favoritsm aside and are truly objective. I would even go to the point of saying no comparison.

Between Lara and Tendulkar - against these great attacks - it becomes subjective.
Statistically, they were both very mediocre (considering the standards that are set for such ATG batsmen), so you then have the freedom to invent your own criteria to make the player you like the most (or hate the most) as the best (or the worst).

Very well put. And the fact of the matter remains, Lara essentially only played Donald with both in their respective primes in that one series. Yet some people draw conclusions based on that. Yet in 'other' arguments they'd say that certain players are untested because they didn't play X enough. Fun fact both Lara and Sachin faced Donald over the same number of innings with Donald dismissing Lara 6 times and Sachin 5.

Anyway I agree with most all of the above. Objectively, both Lara and Sachin were well below par vs Donald led South African bowling, Wasim, and were mixed vs McGrath.