DrWolverine
International 12th Man
Is it Sachin’s fault that others were not good enough to debut at 16?
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Jasprit Bumrah vs Malcolm Marshall
- Thread starter Darkshadows
- Start date
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
47.42. But it's higher than it deserves to be imo. Like I said, 84 series was a disaster level bowling from Australia and he had all but 2 non single digit scores (178 and 76) but still end up with 54.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
We should start a Smith average watch thread.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Nothing really. Except certain posters have used Gavaskar averaging 36 vs England at home vs him......
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
It doesn't proven anything unless you are talking about specific bowling attacks, whereas in away record we are looking at away conditions too.
Johan
International Regular
Off topic but I never really believed in subtracting the young years from teen debutants like Wasim or Sachin, these guys developed so well because they played years of top level Cricket before even getting to physical peaks, like if it was someone who barely played at a very young age and then became regular it's fine but these guys were straight regulars as teens
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
I think a best 17 years per se accounts for that
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Gavaskar overall vs England is the issue.
Johan
International Regular
smh
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Averaging 41 away in England as an opener is hardly bad imo. Viv had similar returns in Pakistan.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Yes but logically the odds of messing up at international level at such a young age are much more than in FC.
Even if you don't want to subtract it, but minimum be lenient when looking at averages of those teen years in comparison with others.
For example, folks are comparing Lara and Tendulkar against Donald and pretending that Tendulkar playing Donald as a teen averaging mid 30s is a fail. Like really...
Johan
International Regular
Tendulkar got a hundred so who cares, his 96-97 home series was far worse than his 92-93 away series in South Africa.
my point was, there is no guarantee that Sachin or Wasim would become the players they were in their mid 20s if they hadn't had the developement the way they did, same with Gary, now if you wanna remove their later years that's cool with me
sayon basak
International Captain
Wait for 2/3 years. We may witness the victory of Dravid.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Folks who are making these comparison care. They factor in Tendulkar's number dismissals against Donald including his teen series and compare that to Lara who faced Donald in all in his 20s and 30s.
Well I think it extended their normal progression to worldclass.
Normal worldclass pacers for example take between 10-15 tests to hit their strides. Wasim took around twice as long.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
I kinda agree but also disagree?? I mean, they probably would had developed differently without debuting so young, but that doesn't means that debuting that young didn't took a toll in their overall record.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Viv had his worst of 3 series ( other 2 were ATG and pretty good) in arguably the flattest one. But meh, was a 2 Test series (still 5.66 avg though). Overall his Pakistan record is pretty great imo.
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
There was a stat published during the last Ashes where they told us Smith's average vs deliveries bowled at 145+ and his average wasn't good. I think it was something in the 30s.
It is his dodgy technique that saves him in Australia. The bounce is so much that he survives LBW shouts almost every time. Even fuller good length balls end up going over the stumps. So covering the stumps works out more often that not, as LBW is almost taken out of the equation on so many of the pitches, unless he misses a really full ball. Not just LBW, even bowled is almost taken out of the equation when you cover the stumps completely like he does. So particularly in Aus, only way to really get him is to have him caught behind.
As he has aged and as his reflexes have slowed a tad, I believe he'll now struggle outside Aus with his technique... He could likely become a prime LBW candidate without insane reflexes or extra bounce to bail him out. We got a glimpse of that in NZ series last year when he was repeatedly getting LBW.
People will pont to his hundreds in BGT but go back to both of his innings and you will notice "multiple" close LBW shouts in both innings which were umpires call. If it was any other country, those wouldn't have been umpires call, but clean LBWs. Bounce saved him on numerous occasions. So I honestly believe if he plays another 2/2.5 years, he will find himself struggling for runs and particularly his overseas record could end up with holes as his sample size in some countries is ridiculously low.
For eg, one sub par series in South Africa and his avg there would end up mid 30s. He has only played 4 tests in NZ, 6 in SA, 5 in SL, 3 in Pak, 2 in WI. Look at that sample size. It's nothing. Actually none of these country averages can be taken seriously atm. He needs to have played at least 8-10 tests in 'some' of these nations.
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capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Like does WI, Pak and Bang average really matters??
