Which players would be locks in every OTHER country’s ATG XI?

[smash84]

Bradman's average is twice that of Tendulkar, but his failure rate isn't half of tendulkar.

Assuming a definition of getting out on <30 as a failure, Bradman failed about ~35% of the time, Tendulkar failed ~45% of the time. A team with two tendulkars will have both of them failing ~ 20% of the time (0.45 * 0.45), so they wouldn't fail as much.

Bradman's average being twice is a consequence of him scoring a lot more when he did get set (so if he does get to 30, he averages ~160, compared to Tendulkar's ~100) , but the problem with that is that beyond a certain point more runs are meaningless, additionally high scores tend to be correlated with pitches where batting is easier, making these runs not as important (again).

tldr - Two Tendulkar's will fail less often than one Bradman, they will sometimes score 140 runs combined compared to Bradman's 200 but that wouldn't be as meaningful as the failures.

That's actually a good way to think about it. I wonder how the probabilities change if you change the cutoff score to 20 instead of 30? 30 Would be a great score on a green top with ATG bowlers having a go at it.

 

[Socerer 01]

Sounds a lot like Kallis actually.

if Kallis played 50 years ago everyone would fawn over a top order batsman bowling pace while looking muscular af and grinding down bowlers while batting with ***y shots

 

[subshakerz]

Hence why peer review alone is flawed.

Don't you use descriptions of player quality from the era in your assessment?

 

[kyear2]

Why?

1. Takes one ball like everyone else.

2. Never believed he's twice as good as other all time greats

3. Unlike most of the other players in these conversations, he's never faced anything close to these level attacks or bowlers.

Please note, not dating he isn't the best or greatest, he clearly was.

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah, who cares about skill, lets go with their mindsets.

Yeah if they are close in overall quality, almost 100% an Aussie captain would do that.

 

[Bolo.]

Yeah if they are close in overall quality, almost 100% an Aussie captain would do that.

Miller was called out by at least one captain as being unwilling to bowl enough, and many people think he didn't apply himself properly as a bat.

How is this a mindet win?

 

[kyear2]

We lost the 2021 series in RSA coz we did not have a good enough #3 seamer and they had Ngidi. Soz....

Fully agree, I was being sarcastic.

 

[srbhkshk]

That's actually a good way to think about it. I wonder how the probabilities change if you change the cutoff score to 20 instead of 30? 30 Would be a great score on a green top with ATG bowlers having a go at it.

<20 for Bradman is 27.5%

Tendulkar is ~40%, so Tenulkar ^ 2 is about 16%.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Aussie captain will pick Miller ahead of Kallis 7 days a week. Winner mindset.

Sorry to continue this tangent, but how is that a winner mindset?

Miller helped win WW2. Kallis didn't.

 

[kyear2]

Miller was called out by at least one captain as being unwilling to bowl enough, and many people think he didn't apply himself properly as a bat.

How is this a mindet win?

He just hates Kallis and would push anyone above him.

 

[subshakerz]

Miller was called out by at least one captain as being unwilling to bowl enough, and many people think he didn't apply himself properly as a bat.

How is this a mindet win?

Wasn't he injured then and still asked to bowl?

As for 'not applying himself', you can make the same accusation about Viv. That is besides the point.

He just hates Kallis and would push anyone above him.

I genuinely think Miller is comparable with Kallis and I genuinely think Miller would gel better in an Aussie team than Kallis given his brand of cricket.

 

[Jumno]

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman
Viv
Tendulkar
Warne
Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee
Sobers
Imran
Gilchrist

 

[kyear2]

So let's start with my at xi, can make that can make any other.

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman
Richards
Tendulkar
Sobers
Gilchrist
Marshall
Warne
Steyn
McGrath

Plus

Hadlee
Smith
Lara
Imran
Ambrose


Arguable

Kallis
Hammond

 

[_00_deathscar]

Miller doesn't deserve selection neither at no.8 as a bowler because he only picked 3 wickets per test nor at no.6 as more of a batter because he only averaged mid 30s with the bat.

In an ATG contest he will get wrecked. Better off picking a proper no.6 batsman avging 50 and a proper no.8 bowler who can pick 4+WPM.

Or a number 8 howler who averages 30+ when batting
Yet again, proving that the answer to every thread and question is Jadeja

 

[centurymaker]

Or a number 8 howler who averages 30+ when batting
Yet again, proving that the answer to every thread and question is Jadeja

His WPM is above 4 so he's fine. Miller is only 3. Thats not good enough for a no.8

 

[Bolo.]

Wasn't he injured then and still asked to bowl?

As for 'not applying himself', you can make the same accusation about Viv. That is besides the point.


I genuinely think Miller is comparable with Kallis and I genuinely think Miller would gel better in an Aussie team than Kallis given his brand of cricket.

It happened more than once. He averages 22 in FC, but only took around 2WPM. He was clearly a reluctant bowler.

Him not applying himself was part of his brand of cricket. It caused him to butt heads with Bradman. He also had issues with Jonston.

What exactly about his brand of cricket would be a good fit? His lacksadasical (by professional era standards) wasn't. His batting is similar to Kallis, just worse. His bowling similar but better. If you think AUS have more need for a bowling AR than a batting one, make that argument. Otherwise you are making an absolutely terrible point.

 

[subshakerz]

It happened more than once. He averages 22 in FC, but only took around 2WPM. He was clearly a reluctant bowler.

Him not applying himself was part of his brand of cricket. It caused him to butt heads with Bradman. He also had issues with Jonston.

What exactly about his brand of cricket would be a good fit? His lacksadasical (by professional era standards) wasn't. His batting is similar to Kallis, just worse. His bowling similar but better. If you think AUS have more need for a bowling AR than a batting one, make that argument. Otherwise you are making an absolutely terrible point.

I think you're dismissing Miller a bit quickly here. He was an inspiration based cricketer, a jack in the box, and could provide a good contrast to 10 of the other specialists in the team in terms of what he adds.

However, I concede issues with bowling load which is why I think Cummins will eventually replace him from the side.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I think you're dismissing Miller a bit quickly here. He was an inspiration based cricketer, a jack in the box, and could provide a good contrast to 10 of the other specialists in the team in terms of what he adds.

However, I concede issues with bowling load which is why I think Cummins will eventually replace him from the side.

I think most teams would prefer him as a no 6 than a 4th bowler. I mean, a strong top 5, an allrounder at 6, a keeper who can bat and a bowling allrounder at 8; that's an ideal team set up.

 

[subshakerz]

I think most teams would prefer him as a no 6 than a 4th bowler. I mean, a strong top 5, an allrounder at 6, a keeper who can bat and a bowling allrounder at 8; that's an ideal team set up.

Fair enough. I originally had Miller at no.6 too. But if it's no.6 then Kallis should rightly get the nod.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Fair enough. I originally had Miller at no.6 too. But if it's no.6 then Kallis should rightly get the nod.

That's what I believe too. Miller is too good a bat and too not suitable a ball to bat at 8.