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Which players would be locks in every OTHER country’s ATG XI?

smash84

The Tiger King
Bradman's average is twice that of Tendulkar, but his failure rate isn't half of tendulkar.

Assuming a definition of getting out on <30 as a failure, Bradman failed about ~35% of the time, Tendulkar failed ~45% of the time. A team with two tendulkars will have both of them failing ~ 20% of the time (0.45 * 0.45), so they wouldn't fail as much.

Bradman's average being twice is a consequence of him scoring a lot more when he did get set (so if he does get to 30, he averages ~160, compared to Tendulkar's ~100) , but the problem with that is that beyond a certain point more runs are meaningless, additionally high scores tend to be correlated with pitches where batting is easier, making these runs not as important (again).

tldr - Two Tendulkar's will fail less often than one Bradman, they will sometimes score 140 runs combined compared to Bradman's 200 but that wouldn't be as meaningful as the failures.
That's actually a good way to think about it. I wonder how the probabilities change if you change the cutoff score to 20 instead of 30? 30 Would be a great score on a green top with ATG bowlers having a go at it.
 

kyear2

International Coach
1. Takes one ball like everyone else.

2. Never believed he's twice as good as other all time greats

3. Unlike most of the other players in these conversations, he's never faced anything close to these level attacks or bowlers.

Please note, not dating he isn't the best or greatest, he clearly was.
 

Bolo.

International Captain
Yeah if they are close in overall quality, almost 100% an Aussie captain would do that.
Miller was called out by at least one captain as being unwilling to bowl enough, and many people think he didn't apply himself properly as a bat.

How is this a mindet win?
 

srbhkshk

International Captain
That's actually a good way to think about it. I wonder how the probabilities change if you change the cutoff score to 20 instead of 30? 30 Would be a great score on a green top with ATG bowlers having a go at it.
<20 for Bradman is 27.5%

Tendulkar is ~40%, so Tenulkar ^ 2 is about 16%.
 

kyear2

International Coach
Miller was called out by at least one captain as being unwilling to bowl enough, and many people think he didn't apply himself properly as a bat.

How is this a mindet win?
He just hates Kallis and would push anyone above him.
 

subshakerz

International Coach
Miller was called out by at least one captain as being unwilling to bowl enough, and many people think he didn't apply himself properly as a bat.

How is this a mindet win?
Wasn't he injured then and still asked to bowl?

As for 'not applying himself', you can make the same accusation about Viv. That is besides the point.

He just hates Kallis and would push anyone above him.
I genuinely think Miller is comparable with Kallis and I genuinely think Miller would gel better in an Aussie team than Kallis given his brand of cricket.
 

kyear2

International Coach
So let's start with my at xi, can make that can make any other.

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman
Richards
Tendulkar
Sobers
Gilchrist
Marshall
Warne
Steyn
McGrath

Plus

Hadlee
Smith
Lara
Imran
Ambrose


Arguable

Kallis
Hammond
 

_00_deathscar

International Regular
Miller doesn't deserve selection neither at no.8 as a bowler because he only picked 3 wickets per test nor at no.6 as more of a batter because he only averaged mid 30s with the bat.

In an ATG contest he will get wrecked. Better off picking a proper no.6 batsman avging 50 and a proper no.8 bowler who can pick 4+WPM.
Or a number 8 howler who averages 30+ when batting
Yet again, proving that the answer to every thread and question is Jadeja
 

Bolo.

International Captain
Wasn't he injured then and still asked to bowl?

As for 'not applying himself', you can make the same accusation about Viv. That is besides the point.


I genuinely think Miller is comparable with Kallis and I genuinely think Miller would gel better in an Aussie team than Kallis given his brand of cricket.
It happened more than once. He averages 22 in FC, but only took around 2WPM. He was clearly a reluctant bowler.

Him not applying himself was part of his brand of cricket. It caused him to butt heads with Bradman. He also had issues with Jonston.

What exactly about his brand of cricket would be a good fit? His lacksadasical (by professional era standards) wasn't. His batting is similar to Kallis, just worse. His bowling similar but better. If you think AUS have more need for a bowling AR than a batting one, make that argument. Otherwise you are making an absolutely terrible point.
 

subshakerz

International Coach
It happened more than once. He averages 22 in FC, but only took around 2WPM. He was clearly a reluctant bowler.

Him not applying himself was part of his brand of cricket. It caused him to butt heads with Bradman. He also had issues with Jonston.

What exactly about his brand of cricket would be a good fit? His lacksadasical (by professional era standards) wasn't. His batting is similar to Kallis, just worse. His bowling similar but better. If you think AUS have more need for a bowling AR than a batting one, make that argument. Otherwise you are making an absolutely terrible point.
I think you're dismissing Miller a bit quickly here. He was an inspiration based cricketer, a jack in the box, and could provide a good contrast to 10 of the other specialists in the team in terms of what he adds.

However, I concede issues with bowling load which is why I think Cummins will eventually replace him from the side.
 

capt_Luffy

International Captain
I think you're dismissing Miller a bit quickly here. He was an inspiration based cricketer, a jack in the box, and could provide a good contrast to 10 of the other specialists in the team in terms of what he adds.

However, I concede issues with bowling load which is why I think Cummins will eventually replace him from the side.
I think most teams would prefer him as a no 6 than a 4th bowler. I mean, a strong top 5, an allrounder at 6, a keeper who can bat and a bowling allrounder at 8; that's an ideal team set up.
 

subshakerz

International Coach
I think most teams would prefer him as a no 6 than a 4th bowler. I mean, a strong top 5, an allrounder at 6, a keeper who can bat and a bowling allrounder at 8; that's an ideal team set up.
Fair enough. I originally had Miller at no.6 too. But if it's no.6 then Kallis should rightly get the nod.
 

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