Which players would be locks in every OTHER country’s ATG XI?

[Coronis]

Isn't part of the reason Miller has a lower wpm that australia had a pretty deep bowling lineup with lots of options at the time? And they played 5 bowlers quite often I think.

In part I suppose. He always opened the bowling though, and he bowled less in non test games so its not like he has much of a track record for being capable of taking larger hauls

 

[Bolo.]

On the contrary, as long as you have four worldclass bowlers who are all capable strike bowlers, the difference between a Cummins or Davidson or Miller as fourth seamer doesn't matter much.

ATG bats they faced are the ones who are going to struggle.

Bowlers and bats will both struggle more. It's what stronger opposition does.

Competing with other great bowlers at times when wicket taking is easy, and bowling at better bats means WPM is likely going to go down. This may be counterbalanced a bit for players who played for weak batting units, but most ATG candidates didn't.

tbf how many of your ATG teams have 20 wpm across the bowlers?

None of them based on the most common picks. But the further you get from it, the more matches you aren't winning.

 

[capt_Luffy]

No Lillee is an Aus XI? That ain't on.

I agree, there is a question about Milkers bowling capacity as a 4th seamer, but overall I feel he is more suitable at no.8.

I don't think he's capable enough as a 4th seamer. But I think he is really good as a 7th batsman and 5th seamer.

Lillee and Lindwall and Davidson are too close to me as bowlers, the latter duos batting is enough of a difference for me.

 

[ataraxia]

Isn't part of the reason Miller has a lower wpm that australia had a pretty deep bowling lineup with lots of options at the time? And they played 5 bowlers quite often I think.

Yeah, and Miller's the reason why they could play 5 bowlers anyway, of course.

And for a pace-bowling all-rounder is a WPM of 3.1 (down one a match due to batting five) really that bad?

 

[Bolo.]

Yeah, and Miller's the reason why they could play 5 bowlers anyway, of course.

And for a pace-bowling all-rounder is a WPM of 3.1 (down one a match due to batting five) really that bad?

The other quality XIs are picking their 4 best bowlers and playing a 5th. Aus doing neither is a big sacrifice in terms of firepower. Are you comfortable saying they would be able to consistently bowl Pak/WI/India/SL out away given how few of their players have proven success in these places?

 

[Migara]

There is a bit of hypocrisy not selecting Sangakkara as a batsman or wk bat.

If Sangakkara is not fit to be selected as a keeper-bat (due to averaging 40), his 60+ average as a pure bat should cut it in.
If Sangakkara is not fit for selection as a pre - bat due to average of 57 only, then he is good enough to be selected as a keeper bat with that average.

Choose the way you want.

 

[Migara]

O'Reilly like Sutcliffe here.

Thinking about Kallis, would he make the W.I team over Headley? Think as batsmen we date them really closely, and while I believe that Kallis is the 3rd most valuable (not best) cricketer ever, the rolls that makes him valuable are literally being filled by the only one person who did them better.

So my list is very similar

Hobbs, Hutton, Bradman, Richards, Tendulkar, Sobers, Smith, Lara

Gilchrist

Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Warne, Steyn, Ambrose, Imran.


Kallis is close, and this will surprise and get me labelled a homer, but Garner.

Warne won't make SL side over Murali.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Warne won't make SL side over Murali.

He would make as the 2nd spinner

 

[Migara]

He would make as the 2nd spinner

Same goes for Murali in Australian side. Some might select him over Warne to play in England, NZ, SAF and WI.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Same goes for Murali in Australian side.

Australia would play 3 great specialist pacers. They wouldn't select two spinners.

 

[Migara]

Australia would play 3 great specialist pacers. They wouldn't select two spinners.

I am wondering about three great pacers Australia is going to play on a dust bowl, who are better than Murali. McGrath is granted, the rest? And on a dust bowl, Murali would be easily selected over Warne. If Ashwin is available he would be selected over everyone on a dust bowl.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I am wondering about three great pacers Australia is going to play on a dust bowl, who are better than Murali. McGrath is granted, the rest? And on a dust bowl, Murali would be easily selected over Warne. If Ashwin is available he would be selected over everyone on a dust bowl.

We are taking in a general pitch were Australia plays most matches. Of course in a Turner both will play, but in an average flat or seaming conditions, only one will play most of the times.

 

[kyear2]

Miller doesn't deserve selection neither at no.8 as a bowler because he only picked 3 wickets per test nor at no.6 as more of a batter because he only averaged mid 30s with the bat.

In an ATG contest he will get wrecked. Better off picking a proper no.6 batsman avging 50 and a proper no.8 bowler who can pick 4+WPM.

This, so very simply this. He hurts you either way.

 

[Bolo.]

I am wondering about three great pacers Australia is going to play on a dust bowl, who are better than Murali. McGrath is granted, the rest? And on a dust bowl, Murali would be easily selected over Warne. If Ashwin is available he would be selected over everyone on a dust bowl.

A lot of players would make a lot of teams if you are swapping out for conditions. We are all picking a single XI for every match. For Aus, that's not Murali.

 

[Migara]

We are taking in a general pitch were Australia plays most matches. Of course in a Turner both will play, but in an average flat or seaming conditions, only one will play most of the times.

Even then Murali is the better bowler and will do significantly bettet with support around.

 

[Migara]

And in this excercise there is definite bias against teams who started late and has lesser number of players to draw from.

In their playing days there were almost no all rounder better than Shakib and Kallis, but they will not walk in to teams that can draw large number of players from a very long duration. Same goes for Murali, he was the best or the second best bowler among his playing peers. He would make every team during his playing days. Warne on other hand would not make the Indian XI during his playing days.

 

[Coronis]

And in this excercise there is definite bias against teams who started late and has lesser number of players to draw from.

In their playing days there were almost no all rounder better than Shakib and Kallis, but they will not walk in to teams that can draw large number of players from a very long duration. Same goes for Murali, he was the best or the second best bowler among his playing peers. He would make every team during his playing days. Warne on other hand would not make the Indian XI during his playing days.

Sucks to be them I guess. (and its not like South Africa have been around for 130 odd years is it?)

Same goes for Murali in Australian side. Some might select him over Warne to play in England, NZ, SAF and WI.

Don’t try and turn this into a Warne vs Murali thing, please. SL is likely to have a second spinner (Herath I presume?) in their ATG side, this is true, no? That’s why Warne is a pick for SL and Murali isn’t for Australia - they won’t be selecting a second spinner.

Both are obviously good enough to make the rest of the teams - though both have equally questionable cases in India, which is why I left Warne off the list in the first place.

There is a bit of hypocrisy not selecting Sangakkara as a batsman or wk bat.

If Sangakkara is not fit to be selected as a keeper-bat (due to averaging 40), his 60+ average as a pure bat should cut it in.
If Sangakkara is not fit for selection as a pre - bat due to average of 57 only, then he is good enough to be selected as a keeper bat with that average.

Choose the way you want.

He wouldn’t be chosen as a keeper bat for Australia. He was ranked below 5 of the Aussie middle order bats and 4 of the Windies middle order bats in the recent batsmen poll, so he is far from an automatic selection (which is the criteria for the list) in those two teams. (Personally for me he would make both those teams as a batsman but hey, I’m not letting my opinion colour that)

 

[subshakerz]

This, so very simply this. He hurts you either way.

Aussie captain will pick Miller ahead of Kallis 7 days a week. Winner mindset.

 

[Coronis]

Aussie captain will pick Miller ahead of Kallis 7 days a week. Winner mindset.

Sorry to continue this tangent, but how is that a winner mindset?

 

[Migara]

He wouldn’t be chosen as a keeper bat for Australia. He was ranked below 5 of the Aussie middle order bats and 4 of the Windies middle order bats in the recent batsmen poll, so he is far from an automatic selection (which is the criteria for the list) in those two teams. (Personally for me he would make both those teams as a batsman but hey, I’m not letting my opinion colour that)

Fair enough. There is some logic there. This was for people who consider Sanga's wk-bat average for his selection as a keeper, but career average when selecting as a pure bat. Since you think he is good enough as a pure-bat, that is very logical.