Debate thread for 2024 Ranking of batsmen poll

[ma1978]

Hard to see a strong case for Smith over Viv or Lara. I get the case but it’s a weak one

 

[capt_Luffy]

Did even 1 bowling attack that Viv face had more than 1 ATG pacer ?
I know Viv faced Imran and Wasim but was Wasim an ATG in 80s ?

When Wasim became Top tier, Imran wasn't anymore.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Lara yes. The rest justifiable.

Lmao. @honestbharani

 

[kyear2]

Did even 1 bowling attack that Viv face had more than 1 ATG pacer ?
I know Viv faced Imran and Wasim but was Wasim an ATG in 80s ?

No, but almost every team did have one. Who else faced that their entire career.

 

[Coronis]

No, but almost every team did have one. Who else faced that their entire career.

Who did India have? Who did England have? (i.e the two teams he gorged the most on) Who did Australia have after Lillee? i.e the three teams he faced the large majority of his career

 

[PlayerComparisons]

The Pak and NZ attacks Viv faced had one ATG but were pretty weak apart from that

 

[capt_Luffy]

No, but almost every team did have one. Who else faced that their entire career.

Lara didn't necessarily faced weaker attacks on average than Viv; half of the World's best bowlers played with him.....

 

[kyear2]

Lara didn't necessarily faced weaker attacks on average than Viv; half of the World's best bowlers played with him.....

Lara faced just as good attacks, McWarne, Donald and Pollock, 2Ws, Murali.

But how about again, Hammond, Hutton post war outside of Lindwall and Miller, Bradman.

Viv faced Imran, Wasim, Snow, Underwood, Lillee, Thompson, Quartet, Botham, Hadlee. Never played minnows.

Who besides Lara, Sachin, possibly Sobers faced names like that, and succeeded. And not just succeeded, dominated them, everywhere.

The revisionist history is ridiculous.

 

[ma1978]

Who did India have? Who did England have? (i.e the two teams he gorged the most on) Who did Australia have after Lillee? i.e the three teams he faced the large majority of his career

well Lillee is arguably the greatest pace bowler of all time, Botham when Richards destroyed him was averaging sub 20 and India had the spin quartet which was plenty difficult in its own right

 

[Sunil1z]

well Lillee is arguably the greatest pace bowler of all time, Botham when Richards destroyed him was averaging sub 20 and India had the spin quartet which was plenty difficult in its own right

And that definitely makes him a TOP 10 bat . But if someone rates Lara more than Viv then this shouldn’t be a controversial opinion

 

[capt_Luffy]

Lara faced just as good attacks, McWarne, Donald and Pollock, 2Ws, Murali.

But how about again, Hammond, Hutton post war outside of Lindwall and Miller, Bradman.

Viv faced Imran, Wasim, Snow, Underwood, Lillee, Thompson, Quartet, Botham, Hadlee. Never played minnows.

Who besides Lara, Sachin, possibly Sobers faced names like that, and succeeded. And not just succeeded, dominated them, everywhere.

The revisionist history is ridiculous.

Gavaskar. And again, I don't have Hammond and Hutton ahead of Viv, and let's not talk Don. Viv played great attacks and dominated plenty of them, but saying Lara didn't faced around equal attacks is ridiculous to me and the definition of toxic nostalgia. And Pakistan and New Zealand did had pretty weak overall attacks, which got heavily carried by Hadlee and Imran. Also, Indian bowling post quartet wasn't really much better than minnow level, if not for Kapil Dev.

 

[kyear2]

And that definitely makes him a TOP 10 bat . But if someone rates Lara more than Viv then this shouldn’t be a controversial opinion

For me Lara, Viv, Smith all in group together, think Viv heads it, but that's not controversial. Hutton above them is a bit of a stretch.

 

[Sunil1z]

Gavaskar. And again, I don't have Hammond and Hutton ahead of Viv, and let's not talk Don. Viv played great attacks and dominated plenty of them, but saying Lara didn't faced around equal attacks is ridiculous to me and the definition of toxic nostalgia.

I think Gavaskar was a defensive batsman. He didn’t dominate like Sachin, Viv or Lara .

 

[capt_Luffy]

I think Gavaskar was a defensive batsman. He didn’t dominate like Sachin, Viv or Lara .

I didn't exactly meant dominate like that, but he scored plenty, which is what counts for me personally.

 

[Sunil1z]

I didn't exactly meant dominate like that, but he scored plenty, which is what counts for me personally.

I once said on this forum that Gavaskar’s record against Great fast bowlers was better than Sachin/Lara .
Averaged 50 vs Imran
Averaged 40 vs WI pace quartet
Had a very good tour of England in 1979 against Botham, Willis and Underwood.
But many on this forum considered this opinion highly controversial

 

[capt_Luffy]

I once said on this forum that Gavaskar’s record against Great fast bowlers was better than Sachin/Lara .
Averaged 50 vs Imran
Averaged 40 vs WI pace quartet
Had a very good tour of England in 1979 against Botham, Willis and Underwood.
But many on this forum considered this opinion highly controversial

Don't worry, I am with you on this one. Believe I rate Gavaskar higher here than anyone who isn't PFK. Oh, and I believe that 40 vs Quartet doesn't include the 76 series in which he scored plenty against both Holding and Roberts.

 

[Sunil1z]

Don't worry, I am with you on this one. Believe I rate Gavaskar higher here than anyone who isn't PFK. Oh, and I believe that 40 vs Quartet doesn't include the 76 series in which he scored plenty against both Holding and Roberts.

I am including only 83 series

 

[capt_Luffy]

I am including only 83 series

Yeah, I thought so too. That's why I was saying, the '76 is underrated.

 

[subshakerz]

The Pak and NZ attacks Viv faced had one ATG but were pretty weak apart from that

Pak had Imran, Qadir and Qasim.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Pak had Imran, Qadir and Qasim.

Qadir averaged 47 away....