Debate thread for 2024 Ranking of batsmen poll

[subshakerz]

Really? If anything, Murali gets too much flank for essentially what was one bad series, and you work overtime to point how poor Lara was against express pace....

That 2007 series performance hardly gets cited.

And it's not just Lara against pure pace. He was abjectly bad at various points between 96 and 2001 based on his poor attitude, etc. I've never seen an ATG bat look as helpless as Lara did in the first four tests of the 96 series against McGrath.

The reason I pound on this is because Lara's highlights, rather than mean performance, are usually the decider in his favor, and we don't focus on the flipside.

 

[subshakerz]

Smith did hit a higher level than Lara but cross-career consistency does matter too. Think it's debatable because of that. Would have Viv over Smith too for now.

Viv is over Smith for me too.

Smith just needs maybe a year or so before the longevity issue won't apply vs Lara.

 

[capt_Luffy]

That 2007 series performance hardly gets cited.

And it's not just Lara against pure pace. He was abjectly bad at various points between 96 and 2001 based on his poor attitude, etc. I've never seen an ATG bat look as helpless as Lara did in the first four tests of the 96 series against McGrath.

The reason I pound on this is because Lara's highlights, rather than mean performance, are usually the decider in his favor, and we don't focus on the flipside.

Literally the biggest points used against Murali are his failures in India and Australia 2007. Same for Lara, the reason he is below Sachin for most is because of the drop in his form for such a lengthy period of time (Sachin also did had a bad patch between 2003-07).

 

[subshakerz]

Literally the biggest points used against Murali are his failures in India and Australia 2007. Same for Lara, the reason he is below Sachin for most is because of the drop in his form for such a lengthy period of time (Sachin also did had a bad patch between 2003-07).

I understand Murali in Australia overall is brought up but I haven't usually seen posters mention how he bowled in the 2007 series.

But I don't think we disagree heavily here.

 

[kyear2]

I do. He is a flawed genius and my favorite bat growing up but I think that blinded me to his lowlights.

CW does a really bad job of remembering how poor a particular great seemed when outside their element except for Ponting in India.

We forget how toothless Murali seemed in Aus in 2007 or how staggeringly bad Lara was in 1996 against McGrath. It's just not considered polite to bring up.

Didn't you and @Slifer have this conversation multiple times?

 

[subshakerz]

Didn't you and @Slifer have this conversation multiple times?

Maybe...

 

[CricAddict]

Hard to see a strong case for Smith over Viv or Lara. I get the case but it’s a weak one

Yes Smith over Viv is worse than Jadeja getting selected over Miller or Kumble.

 

[honestbharani]

Lara > every batsman other than Bradman, Sobers.

 

[kyear2]

I personally believe there are 6 batsmen who have a decent argument to be named the best after Bradman, may be a stretch after that, and Lara is definely on those 6

 

[subshakerz]

I personally believe there are 6 batsmen who have a decent argument to be named the best after Bradman, may be a stretch after that, and Lara is definely on those 6

He has the worst record of all those 6, particularly away, so no. No need to hide his faults for which his strengths can't make up ground.

 

[kyear2]

He has the worst record of all those 6, particularly away, so no. No need to hide his faults for which his strengths can't make up ground.

So in your opinion he doesn't deserve to be in that 6?

And good to know your recognize away records.

 

[subshakerz]

So in your opinion he doesn't deserve to be in that 6?

And good to know your recognize away records.

I always did. It was never in doubt unlike some posters when it comes to SC pacers at home.

 

[centurymaker]

Looks like people are underrating Lara now

Might vote for him then.

 

[Victor Ian]

Well I don't rank Barnes and Grace is even earlier. Honestly the game was different and not serious tbh, and that doesn't even factor in the techniques, standard of opposition, game just primarily based on one country.

Different game, different time. None of us even have a clue what he looked like at the crease.

Yeah we do.

 

[kyear2]

I always did. It was never in doubt unlike some posters when it comes to SC pacers at home.

Didn't answer the question, he doesn't belong in the best after Bradman category?

And missed the entire 2nd point, lol

 

[subshakerz]

Didn't answer the question, he doesn't belong in the best after Bradman category?

And missed the entire 2nd point, lol

No, Lara doesn't. I thought I made it clear.

Tendulkar, Hobbs, Sobers, Viv and Smith all are best if their respective era and belong in that group.

Lara falls short of that.

 

[kyear2]

No, Lara doesn't. I thought I made it clear.

Tendulkar, Hobbs, Sobers, Viv and Smith all are best if their respective era and belong in that group.

Lara falls short of that.

Well just one more thing we disagree about.

 

[Prince EWS]

Didn't answer the question, he doesn't belong in the best after Bradman category?

I think he does but the way LL has set up this exercise it's specifically Tests only, where he doesn't quite really.

 

[kyear2]

I think he does but the way LL has set up this exercise it's specifically Tests only, where he doesn't quite really.

I was only talking tests as well.

 

[kyear2]

No, Lara doesn't. I thought I made it clear.

Tendulkar, Hobbs, Sobers, Viv and Smith all are best if their respective era and belong in that group.

Lara falls short of that.

I guess this is similar to our differing takes on Imran and similarly the away records.