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Debate thread for 2024 Ranking of batsmen poll

Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
So…my own take on this Smith Ponting thing.

Smith’s (5 year) peak 2014-2019
49 matches 88 innings 5732 @ 76.42 22 tons 22 fifties

Home: 21 matches 35 innings 2604 @ 96.44 11 tons 9 fifties
Away: 28 matches 53 innings 3138 @ 65.16 11 tons 9 fifties

Australia total average at home in that period: 46.43
Australia total average away in that period: 29.36


Ponting’s (5 year) peak 2001-2006
60 matches 105 innings 6409 @ 72.82 25 tons 21 fifties

Home: 34 matches 60 innings 3823 @ 79.64 14 tons 15 fifties
Away: 26 matches 45 innings 2586 @ 64.65 11 tons 6 fifties

Australia total average at home in that period: 49.37
Australia total average away in that period: 39.35
 
M

ma1978

International Debutant
[
Coronis said:
So…my own take on this Smith Ponting thing.

Smith’s (5 year) peak 2014-2019
49 matches 88 innings 5732 @ 76.42 22 tons 22 fifties

Home: 21 matches 35 innings 2604 @ 96.44 11 tons 9 fifties
Away: 28 matches 53 innings 3138 @ 65.16 11 tons 9 fifties

Australia total average at home in that period: 46.43
Australia total average away in that period: 29.36


Ponting’s (5 year) peak 2001-2006
60 matches 105 innings 6409 @ 72.82 25 tons 21 fifties

Home: 34 matches 60 innings 3823 @ 79.64 14 tons 15 fifties
Away: 26 matches 45 innings 2586 @ 64.65 11 tons 6 fifties

Australia total average at home in that period: 49.37
Australia total average away in that period: 39.35
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honest question, do you see these as statistically dissimilar esp when Ponting’s was longer, and how much of the difference in the Australia average is Hayden, Langer, Martyn, Gilchrist vs Renshaw, Handscomb, Wade, pre revival Khawaja etc
 
Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
ma1978 said:
[


honest question, do you see these as statistically dissimilar esp when Ponting’s was longer, and how much of the difference in the Australia average is Hayden, Langer, Martyn, Gilchrist vs Renshaw, Handscomb, Wade, pre revival Khawaja etc
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Its only more matches b/c Smith was banned during his peak lol. And yes, they are dissimilar, Australian conditions may have been as easy but Smith smashes Ponting in that respect. Away conditions were far easier for Ponting and Smith has a similar if not superior record there. This can also be seen when you look at overall averages in Australia (37.57 Smith’s peak vs 37.58 Ponting’s peak) and away from Australia (30.98 Smith’s peak vs 34.24 Ponting’s peak).

Not to mention of course that Ponting got to play much more of his matches during his peak at home compared to Smith.
 
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kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
capt_Luffy said:
I have stated time and time again, the only reason people include Ponting in their Top 10-12 is pure nostalgia ****. Guy piled on runs in some of the flattest of pitches and against some pretty mediocre bowlers for the most part. His SA tours are massively overrated, the biggest challenge he faced thier was by far Ntini. In the 2001 tour, SA's best bowler was Kallis, Pollock didn't played any matches and Donald played only one, well past his prime. In 2006, Ntini was thier best bowler and Pollock on his last leg; he played only two matches and was pretty horrible in them. And in 2011, he faced a great lineup with Steyn, Morkel, Philander, etc and well, he hadn't done anything in his 2 matches.
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Who did Bradman face? Hobbs? Hammond even? Mostly flat pitches as well.

Ponting dominated, in the right mood he destroyed, he was consistent and led from the front. He like Viv could change the course of a match in a session.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Captain
kyear2 said:
Who did Bradman face? Hobbs? Hammond even? Mostly flat pitches as well.

Ponting dominated, in the right mood he destroyed, he was consistent and led from the front. He like Viv could change the course of a match in a session.
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Hammond faced O'Reilly and Grum, and maintained a greater consistency than Ponting over his career. He was a good batsman in sticky dogs.

I believe the Bradman and Hobbs aren't serious, but we can talk if Ponting had scored like the former or on pitches like the latter.

Again that dominance. Kohli dominated attacks in his right mood, destroyed a bunch. I am not seeing anyone put him in Top 20, let alone 10.
 
Sunil1z

Sunil1z

International Regular
capt_Luffy said:
Hammond faced O'Reilly and Grum, and maintained a greater consistency than Ponting over his career.

I believe the Bradman and Hobbs are serious, but we can talk if Ponting had scored like the former or on pitches like the latter.

Again that dominance. Kohli dominated attacks in his right mood, destroyed a bunch. I am not seeing anyone put him in Top 20, let alone 10.
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If Kohli hadn’t declined this badly, I would have put him in top 20 . Smith averages 10 more than Kohli both home and away . This is like Steyn vs Anderson.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Captain
Sunil1z said:
If Kohli hadn’t declined this badly, I would have put him in top 20 . Smith averages 10 more than Kohli both home and away . This is like Steyn vs Anderson.
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Never have I said otherwise. Had Kohli maintained his pre 2019 form, he might had cracked my Top 10. But he had declined, as had Ponting. Not to mention Kohli has better performances in tougher conditions.
 
Sunil1z

Sunil1z

International Regular
capt_Luffy said:
Never have I said otherwise. Had Kohli maintained his pre 2019 form, he might had cracked my Top 10. But he had declined, as had Ponting. Not to mention Kohli has better performances in tougher conditions.
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Ponting has 5000 more runs . If Kohli gets 12000 runs @50 , I am putting him in top 25 .
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
capt_Luffy said:
Hammond faced O'Reilly and Grum, and maintained a greater consistency than Ponting over his career. He was a good batsman in sticky dogs.

I believe the Bradman and Hobbs aren't serious, but we can talk if Ponting had scored like the former or on pitches like the latter.

Again that dominance. Kohli dominated attacks in his right mood, destroyed a bunch. I am not seeing anyone put him in Top 20, let alone 10.
Click to expand...
Pace bowlers Hammond dominated were whom? And dominated his fair share of minnows.

They all have holes and conditions they exploited.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Captain
kyear2 said:
Pace bowlers Hammond dominated were whom? And dominated his fair share of minnows.

They all have holes and conditions they exploited.
Click to expand...
Hammond and Ponting played similar levels of bowlers in similarly tough conditions along similarly long career and one averages 7 runs more.
 
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