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Warne vs Steyn (Test bowling)

Greater Test bowler?

  • Dale Steyn

  • Shane Warne

Results are only viewable after voting.
shortpitched713

shortpitched713

International Captain
subshakerz said:
His record isnt really qualitatively different than Imran's. The only reason he gets ranked ahead of him is the whole 'succeeded in a flat era' silly argument.
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Which, it turns out, isn't a silly argument. Performance is always relative to the context of matches actually played in one's era. Not to some across times "ideal".
 
shortpitched713

shortpitched713

International Captain
Bolo. said:
We just voted him in as the 4th best quick. Seems fair enough to me.

And if he loses out to a top 2 spinner in this pole, also fair enough.
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Yeah, he gets the edge over Ambrose now. But I think his place is nowhere short of the other top 4 (except possibly McGrath).

CW consensus has only changed a little bit, in favor of McGrath, so that in the current order it's M & M, then Hadlee (who gets an a small, but committed contingent for top spot), and then a gap with Steyn.

But Steyn is the best strike bowler of the lot, and did it with less support than Marshall. There are other factors in favor of Marshall, notably more consistency, but I don't see Steyn as below him. And he had very different circumstances and style to both McGrath and Hadlee, so there's points in favor or against both in a comparison. But Steyn isn't truly seen as their peer and gets the short stick. Reasons for that could be many, including even demographics/rose tinted glasses, but I think Steyn really should be seen as shoulder to shoulder with almost any giant of the game.
 
Sunil1z

Sunil1z

International Regular
shortpitched713 said:
Yeah, he gets the edge over Ambrose. But I think his place is nowhere short of the other top 4 (except possibly McGrath).

CW consensus has only changed a little bit, in favor of McGrath, so that it's M & M, then Hadlee (who gets an a small, but committed contingent for top spot), and then a gap with Steyn.

But Steyn is the best strike bowler of the lot, and did it with less support than Marshall. There are other factors in favor of Marshall, notably more consistency, but I don't see Steyn as below him. And he had very different circumstances and style to both McGrath and Hadlee, so there's points in favor or against both in a comparison. But Steyn isn't truly seen as their peer and gets the short stick. Reasons for that could be many, including even demographics/rose tinted glasses, but I think Steyn really should be seen as shoulder to shoulder with almost any giant of the game.
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I think you are slightly young here . So , I am reminding you some Steyn stats.

SA couldn’t beat both IND and ENG at home when Steyn and Morkel were their strike bowlers in 2009 and 2010 . It was when Philander emerged in 2011 , they started to hammer Teams . And I don’t think they would have won in 2012 in ENG without Philander .
 
shortpitched713

shortpitched713

International Captain
I know the stats points in favor of Steyn aren't everyone's cup of tea, so the last point I have for him is an intangible. Unlike other high performing SA greats, he absolutely wasn't a choker. He was a leader of the attack, and could be counted on, against both the very best, and even if conditions weren't the best for him. 2012 to 2016 run for SA as the number 1 ranked Test team, is in no small part due to that attribute of his. And his team contained less ATG elements than most of the other top of the pyramid bowlers were blessed with.
 
shortpitched713

shortpitched713

International Captain
Sunil1z said:
I think you are slightly young here . So , I am reminding you some Steyn stats.

SA couldn’t beat both IND and ENG at home when Steyn and Morkel were their strike bowlers in 2009 and 2010 . It was when Philander emerged in 2011 , they started to hammer Teams . And I don’t think they would have won in 2012 in ENG without Philander .
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You're speaking my language. Philander to me is an ATG, so of course bringing him into the side would help greatly.

I still think out of the consensus top 7 bowlers all time, he had less overall support than all except Hadlee and Murali.
 
Sunil1z

Sunil1z

International Regular
shortpitched713 said:
You're speaking my language. Philander to me is an ATG, so of course bringing him into the side would help greatly.

I still think out of the consensus top 7 bowlers all time, he had less overall support than all except Hadlee and Murali.
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I agree with your POV

However if we consider 2004 SL series , 2006 SA series and Ashes 2005 , then Warne didn’t need McGrath to perform at ATG level .
 
Sunil1z

Sunil1z

International Regular
subshakerz said:
Pacers and spinners have the same conditions. It's just that spinners tend to be handicapped more.
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No, they don’t get the same Condition.

Pacer always get to bowl at new batsmen with new ball which even in worse case does something for atleast 10 overs

Spinners on the other hand have to bowl to a completely settled batsmen many times . It isn’t the same thing .
 
B

Bolo.

International Captain
shortpitched713 said:
Yeah, he gets the edge over Ambrose now. But I think his place is nowhere short of the other top 4 (except possibly McGrath).

CW consensus has only changed a little bit, in favor of McGrath, so that in the current order it's M & M, then Hadlee (who gets an a small, but committed contingent for top spot), and then a gap with Steyn.

But Steyn is the best strike bowler of the lot, and did it with less support than Marshall. There are other factors in favor of Marshall, notably more consistency, but I don't see Steyn as below him. And he had very different circumstances and style to both McGrath and Hadlee, so there's points in favor or against both in a comparison. But Steyn isn't truly seen as their peer and gets the short stick. Reasons for that could be many, including even demographics/rose tinted glasses, but I think Steyn really should be seen as shoulder to shoulder with almost any giant of the game.
Click to expand...
I'm the opposite on this.

I could understand rating him ahead of Mcgrath or Hadlee on account of preference for style. But not Marshall. I reckon Marshall is pretty much just a straight upgrade on him. Steyn is the only one in this group of 4 who I don't think has a reasonable argument for being the best (yip, even Hadlee), so he kinda loses to the others by default.

It is a group of 4 to me though. He is that good.
 
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