Which Asian all time xi is the strongest?

[HouHsiaoHsien]

What does that mean?

ODIs is tighter but Pakistan will still win because of batting depth and bowling strength. India has a long tail.

ODIs it’s quite uncertain tho, because the gulfs in bowling and batting are equal in both sides, and Ind has a captaincy advantage with Dhoni.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Only Gavaskar, Sehwag and maybe Sachin are better players of spin but pretty much the entire lineup of Pakistan were awesome against spin. So India in India is not an instant win. It's not like it doesn't reverse there either.

In test cricket overall, bowling wins matches and you want to bet on the notably better bowling team as the better team.

Not necessarily. Viswanath, VVS and Azhar played spin as well as if not better than any Pak batsman. Also, better bowling is always better than having batting, and that's the reason I said they would win more matches in seaming conditions; but the difference matters. Indian pace battery consisting of Dev, Shami and Bumrah is I think better than given credit here

 

[capt_Luffy]

You mean Kohli's team? They weren't great at playing spin, they never faced a Murali or Warne level spinner who could have wrecked them on these pitches. I'd back 2000s Australia with Warne/MacGill to beat them comfortably.

In fact, even a Mushtaq Ahmed/Saqlain combo would cause them a lot of trouble.

Also, Warne has particularly bad record in India. So, I am pretty confident that Laxman or Vishwanath makes the batting more formidable in India.

 

[subshakerz]

Not necessarily. Viswanath, VVS and Azhar played spin as well as if not better than any Pak batsman. Also, better bowling is always better than having batting, and that's the reason I said they would win more matches in seaming conditions; but the difference matters. Indian pace battery consisting of Dev, Shami and Bumrah is I think better than given credit here

Those guys don't belong in an ATG XI.

 

[subshakerz]

ODIs it’s quite uncertain tho, because the gulfs in bowling and batting are equal in both sides, and Ind has a captaincy advantage with Dhoni.

It would be a great series.

 

[ma1978]

And siding with the better bowling unit is not speculation, it's logical for tests.

My problem is I'm not sure this is the case. Especially when the other side's bowling is good enough to get ten wickets, I'm not sure I fully accept that the incremental value the Pak bowlers brings makes a difference relative to the batting gulf. One of the reasons I feel this way is that the current Indian pace bowling lineups has no true ATGs, and a lot of above average, but their cumulative results are amongst the strongest in history, which has made me question the value of ATG bowling.

 

[h_hurricane]

Khan, Akram, Younis, Akhtar vs Dev, Shami, Khan, Srinath

Too big a difference

Khan cancels out Khan.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Those guys don't belong in an ATG XI.

Not outside of India, but in Indian pitches; they're better players of spin than Kohli, and frankly, many ATG batsmen also. Like Laxman is one of most successful batsman against Warne....

 

[subshakerz]

My problem is I'm not sure this is the case. Especially when the other side's bowling is good enough to get ten wickets, I'm not sure I fully accept that the incremental value the Pak bowlers brings makes a difference relative to the batting gulf. One of the reasons I feel this way is that the current Indian pace bowling lineups has no true ATGs, and a lot of above average, but their cumulative results are amongst the strongest in history, which has made me question the value of ATG bowling.

Based largely in home results because Ashwin/Jadeja are unplayable on spiced up home wickets. They aren't nearly as effective away from home.

You seem to be the only one thinking Imran, Wasim, Waqar and Shoaib are only incrementally better than the Indian pacers. When I point to their results, you just let it slide.

 

[subshakerz]

Not outside of India, but in Indian pitches; they're better players of spin than Kohli, and frankly, many ATG batsmen also. Like Laxman is one of most successful batsman against Warne....

They you might as well pick a different ATG XI for every country you tour.

 

[Xix2565]

My problem is I'm not sure this is the case. Especially when the other side's bowling is good enough to get ten wickets, I'm not sure I fully accept that the incremental value the Pak bowlers brings makes a difference relative to the batting gulf. One of the reasons I feel this way is that the current Indian pace bowling lineups has no true ATGs, and a lot of above average, but their cumulative results are amongst the strongest in history, which has made me question the value of ATG bowling.

In Tests the better bowling lineup wins more. It's not just about being able to get all 20 wickets (which is the fundamental condition needed to win Tests), but also be able to continuously threaten the opposition's abilities to score runs while taking those wickets (hence limiting their runs compared to yours). While this can vary across conditions, the Test sides that have been winning a lot tend to have the best bowling lineups of that era (e.g. Windies pacers, McWarne).

As for the current Indian pace lineup, I don't think it's fair to say immediately that the players aren't ATGs or whatever. It's not like they've been retired for a while.

 

[Gob]

Don't know if it's this one sided man. India's batting is far superior to Pakistan's

 

[subshakerz]

Don't know if it's this one sided man. India's batting is far superior to Pakistan's

Bowling wins matches.

 

[Coronis]

Don't know if it's this one sided man. India's batting is far superior to Pakistan's

Pakistan’s bowling is more superior to India’s.

 

[TheJediBrah]

As for the current Indian pace lineup, I don't think it's fair to say immediately that the players aren't ATGs or whatever.

It's a pretty safe bet though lol. No one's going to be comparing them with Marshall, Hadlee, McGrath, Ambrose, Steyn etc.

Unless you mean for the Indian ATG XI in which case absolutely Bumrah/Shami are in the running

 

[Xix2565]

It's a pretty safe bet though lol. No one's going to be comparing them with Marshall, Hadlee, McGrath, Ambrose, Steyn etc.

Unless you mean for the Indian ATG XI in which case absolutely Bumrah/Shami are in the running

I mean nothing's defined yet, so it's premature to say already in either direction. For me personally I also hold different standards so what works for you might be different for me.

The point I wanted to contest anyway was about how the results don't seem to match opinions on players. Which is bizarre because opinions should be shaped on the results, not the other way around.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

It's a pretty safe bet though lol. No one's going to be comparing them with Marshall, Hadlee, McGrath, Ambrose, Steyn etc.

Unless you mean for the Indian ATG XI in which case absolutely Bumrah/Shami are in the running

Bumrah’s has had a pretty great start to his career. Good WPM, SR, Av, performances across conditions which Jimmy Anderson couldn’t get after 170 odd matches. If he continues his performances for 80+ tests(tough but possible), no reason why he can’t become a Test ATG. He surely has the potential.

 

[subshakerz]

Bumrah’s has had a pretty great start to his career. Good WPM, SR, Av, performances across conditions which Jimmy Anderson couldn’t get after 170 odd matches. If he continues his performances for 80+ tests(tough but possible), no reason why he can’t become a Test ATG. He surely has the potential.

50/50 because he seems suspect to injuries. Let's see.

 

[_00_deathscar]

What does that mean?

World Cups. Pakistan has insane raw talent but it doesn’t always translate.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Bumrah’s has had a pretty great start to his career. Good WPM, SR, Av, performances across conditions which Jimmy Anderson couldn’t get after 170 odd matches. If he continues his performances for 80+ tests(tough but possible), no reason why he can’t become a Test ATG. He surely has the potential.

This is the worst post in this thread. I’d be happy if we got 8 more tests out of him.