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*Official* Fourth Test (Old Trafford, Manchester) 19-23 July

Skipper Pup

Skipper Pup

U19 Cricketer
Molehill said:
That's where I am on it. It's frustrating because without that stupid declaration and some woeful keeping, England would've won the series comfortably. It's not like previous Ashes defeats where we've been totally outplayed and you're wondering just how bleak the next 10 years might be. If anything, I now have more hope for the next series (probably foolishly) as the team with the Ashes probably has more questions to answer going forward.
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Australia has a lot of thinking to do. I have my doubts that they have learnt their lesson from this series but in the end they just had enough quality to get over the line. If it wasn't for Smith and Cummins they were done for. It's daunting to think how they will replace Khawaja and Lyon with Smith the wrong side of 30yo too.

As for England, they have done exceptionally well to be as competitive as they were and seemingly have won the hearts and minds of the UK press and public. It's certainly not an English side I expected much from so there's definitely reason to be optimistic moving forward.
 
Gob

Gob

International Coach
Reading some comments on Stokes declaration here. IMO he significantly hampered England's chances of winning this game with the late declaration and you don't need to be a Bazball denier or Stokes hater to admit that.

Possibility of absolutely no play on Saturday and very little on Sunday were there before the start of the game (and I think Australia also picked a team with an eye on draw) and England had to make all the moves. They should have swung from the hip towards the stumps on day 2 and probably 7 to 8 overs of the same on the start of day 3 to get the lead up to 150 and put Australia in and try to get them out for 300 over the course of the day or bit in the next day and you have a chase of 150 in 25-15 overs on Sunday. Not easy obviously but if there is a team who would thrive in that situation, its England. Its not even hindsight its just seem like the way to win even at the stumps on day 2.

I could probably live with them playing till lunch on day 2 to get the lead up to 200 plus but burning out more than a half a session for Jonny feel good campaign was horrible move given the circumstances. If anything its the opposite of Bazball
 
wpdavid

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
Molehill said:
It's not like previous Ashes defeats where we've been totally outplayed and you're wondering just how bleak the next 10 years might be.
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I was wondering about that, as you and I both remember the 1990s. There was no sense of 'what if' in those series, but the difference in quality was just depressing. I suppose I'm asking which is worse, being slaughtered or the disappointment of not being able to capitalise on a great opportunity to achieve something memorable.
 
Gob

Gob

International Coach
wpdavid said:
I was wondering about that, as you and I both remember the 1990s. There was no sense of 'what if' in those series, but the difference in quality was just depressing. I suppose I'm asking which is worse, being slaughtered or the disappointment of not being able to capitalise on a great opportunity to achieve something memorable.
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It should be the former but it is usually the latter. You can move on quickly from a slaughter
 
Molehill

Molehill

International Captain
Gob said:
It should be the former but it is usually the latter. You can move on quickly from a slaughter
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When you're getting slaughtered you never feel like it's a missed opportunity and you invest far less time in a series (can't say I've watched much Ashes Cricket in Australia in Melbourne or Sydney recently).

But at least there is room for optimism from a series like this.
 
Silver Silva

Silver Silva

International Debutant
Ashes81 said:
I'm not talking about bowling more overs in the day, I'm talking about actually bowling the number of overs that should be bowled.

If weather doesn't intervene then at least 90 overs should be bowled in a day. If that takes 7 hours then tough - get through your overs quicker.

If the forecast for the end of the day is poor, start earlier. If the forecast is poor early on, start later and use the floodlights if necessary to bowl the overs.

The paying customer, whether that be at the ground or on TV isn't given enough consideration.
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Good points , make this guy the head of ICC , Test Cricket needs to be more fan friendly.
 
A

Ashes81

State Vice-Captain
The more I reflect on this series, the happier I am.

We've been the dominant side for much of the series and particularly in the last test - let's be honest, it was a massacre.

It was the sort if scorecard you get when you play the minnows of test cricket such as Ireland. In fact I think Ireland would give us a better game right now.

Nearly 600 at over 5 an over - wow. The Aussies were relying on rain to hold out for an undeserved draw. That's the sort of thing we used to be reduced to when we played them.

Only for being incredibly unlucky with the weather,.it would be 2 each now. Even for Manchester, losing more or less 2 full days is unusual.

Yes, they've retained the Ashes, but anyone who follows cricket knows that's its been a pretty hollow retention. Even the Aussies were too embarrassed to celebrate.

We're as good as any team in world test cricket right now, as well as obviously being the best white ball team, and that's more than good enough for me.
 
CricAddict

CricAddict

Cricketer Of The Year
Ashes81 said:
The more I reflect on this series, the happier I am.

We've been the dominant side for much of the series and particularly in the last test - let's be honest, it was a massacre.

It was the sort if scorecard you get when you play the minnows of test cricket such as Ireland. In fact I think Ireland would give us a better game right now.

Nearly 600 at over 5 an over - wow. The Aussies were relying on rain to hold out for an undeserved draw. That's the sort of thing we used to be reduced to when we played them.

Only for being incredibly unlucky with the weather, even for Manchester, losing more or less 2 full days is unusual.

Yes, they've retained the Ashes, but anyone who follows cricket knows that's its been a pretty hollow retention. Even the Aussies were too embarrassed to celebrate.

We're as good as any team in world test cricket right now, as well as obviously being the best white ball team, and that's more than good enough for me.
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Looks like the spirit of Stokes is spreading like Covid in England.
 
Skipper Pup

Skipper Pup

U19 Cricketer
Ashes81 said:
The more I reflect on this series, the happier I am.

We've been the dominant side for much of the series and particularly in the last test - let's be honest, it was a massacre.

It was the sort if scorecard you get when you play the minnows of test cricket such as Ireland. In fact I think Ireland would give us a better game right now.

Nearly 600 at over 5 an over - wow. The Aussies were relying on rain to hold out for an undeserved draw. That's the sort of thing we used to be reduced to when we played them.

Only for being incredibly unlucky with the weather,.it would be 2 each now. Even for Manchester, losing more or less 2 full days is unusual.

Yes, they've retained the Ashes, but anyone who follows cricket knows that's its been a pretty hollow retention. Even the Aussies were too embarrassed to celebrate.

We're as good as any team in world test cricket right now, as well as obviously being the best white ball team, and that's more than good enough for me.
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You should be happy, you only narrowly lost to the best team in world cricket right now.

I've been following cricket for a very long time and trust me its one of the most satisfying Ashes retentions ever. I would take this on repeat (and all the English media sooking) over winning 5-0 any day.
 
A

Ashes81

State Vice-Captain
Skipper Pup said:
You should be happy, you only narrowly lost to the best team in world cricket right now.

I've been following cricket for a very long time and trust me its one of the most satisfying Ashes retentions ever. I would take this on repeat (and all the English media sooking) over winning 5-0 any day.
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Whatever floats your boat mate.

If your happy being 2nd best to England, who am I to disagree.
 
The_CricketUmpire

The_CricketUmpire

U19 Captain
Gob said:
Man if Australia with the kind of quality players they have is a bang average one, the quality of the global game must be at its lowest ebb
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As ive been saying for a while. I don't think the standard of World Test cricket collectively is strong and hasn't been for a while
 
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