*Official* Fourth Test (Old Trafford, Manchester) 19-23 July

[Burgey]

Well not in the squad anyway

 

[Burgey]

Nah. He was really really bad as a specialist bat for a couple of years.

Pretty sure he actually averaged more as a keeper before that mad run last year. Admittedly a lot of that would have come from his previous really good year in 2016. Has had a really strange career.

Yeah he’s very rocks and diamonds but not in the normal sense of a good/ bad innings or game. He seems to do it in seasons and years. But I do think they crueled him by giving him the gloves coming off a long injury lay off.

 

[GIMH]

Nah. He was really really bad as a specialist bat for a couple of years.

Pretty sure he actually averaged more as a keeper before that mad run last year. Admittedly a lot of that would have come from his previous really good year in 2016. Has had a really strange career.

I mean I wanted him gone for good at one point as we all did but according to TMS he averages something like 20 less with the gloves than without

 

[Socerer 01]

It’s been said 1000 times and that doesn’t make it any less true - Australia’s problem is that we don’t have a specialist opener who is likely to be an improvement on Warner

It really is that simple

a problem entirely of their own making as Warner has been past his expiry date with warnings for sometime

 

[Adders]

I've let the Foakes thing go now as it's plainly not going to happen. It pisses me off as we're plainly a better side with him in the 11 but the ships sailed.

I for one never considered it a Bairstow/Foakes choice.....I always wanted them both in the 11. And even though we've not had the output from YJB with the bat we'd have liked im still picking him for the last 2 tests because he's in the best 4 bats in the country......but he's a liability behind the stumps right now.

 

[Starfighter]

a problem entirely of their own making as Warner has been past his expiry date with warnings for sometime

It's a silly argument when you consider how bad he's been. 'We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas'.

 

[Pothas]

I mean I wanted him gone for good at one point as we all did but according to TMS he averages something like 20 less with the gloves than without

Not according to cricinfo. Despite all the runs he scored last year his averages with and without the gloves are pretty much identical.

There was some stat going around about him a lot less in innings after keeping though?

 

[NZTailender]

Not according to cricinfo. Despite all the runs he scored last year his averages with and without the gloves are pretty much identical.

There was some stat going around about him a lot less in innings after keeping though?

He had a great calendar year in 2016 with the gloves averaging 58 with 1400 test runs. The following year he averaged 34.31, then 29.87, then 18 in 2019. He took the gloves again 2021 for one test and scored 37 runs across two innings, and this year he's scored 141 at 23.50. So he hasn't really batted well with keeping duties since 2015/16 season through to 2017/18 season.

Without the gloves, he never had a decent run of form until last year. He had scored 1 century and his highest average in a calendar year was 32.75. Last year he hit 6 centuries, 1061 runs at 66.31 under the Bazball experience. So basically he's had 1 good year each with and without. it's just that the with gloves was 7 years ago and without was last year. He takes the gloves again and he looks a different player all of a sudden.

 

[social]

It's a silly argument when you consider how bad he's been. 'We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas'.

That’s not correct

The backup opener in the squad has been tried & has the worst record IN THE HISTORY OF AUSTRALIAN TEST CRICKET so was dropped

Renshaw scored some hundreds in domestic stuff but was terrible in India and has the same technical issues as when he first played tests

Bancroft was the highest scorer in the domestic season but doesn’t look to have solved his technical problems either

So selectors did a complete 180 & gave Harris a contract plus selected him for this tour for no reason other than they didn’t think that the others were up to it

Pretty obvious that the selectors were praying for Warner to get through the Ashes but …

 

[Son Of Coco]

I don"t know why people are upset about Bairstow keeping the gloves. He's a pretty good goalkeeper. Tipped a few around the bar this series.

 

[Adders]

You tip it over the bar not around......dumbass.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

It's a silly argument when you consider how bad he's been. 'We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas'.

Honestly who would you have liked to see tried instead?

And no, "anyone else" is not a valid answer

 

[Kraken]

Honestly who would you have liked to see tried instead?

And no, "anyone else" is not a valid answer

the only one who’s even a valid consideration is essentially one concussion away from retirement/something worse

Whiteman, maybe? Even then it’s a bit of a stretch

 

[Socerer 01]

Burgey keeps waxing about Hunt or Ward and someone else suggested Whiteman too

trying Harris before, finding out he was a failure then going back to him and then pointing out at him as the reason to keep Warner in is silly. its what India did with Dhoni even when he was clearly past it in odis at the end

 

[GIMH]

Not according to cricinfo. Despite all the runs he scored last year his averages with and without the gloves are pretty much identical.

There was some stat going around about him a lot less in innings after keeping though?

Can’t remember exactly but might have just been last few years. They went onto mention output after keeping highlighting his only decent performance this series being before he kept. Not a coincidence

 

[Kraken]

Burgey keeps waxing about Hunt or Ward and someone else suggested Whiteman too

trying Harris before, finding out he was a failure then going back to him and then pointing out at him as the reason to keep Warner in is silly. its what India did with Dhoni even when he was clearly past it in odis at the end

Ward is a good player, but he’s not a test level player (yet). He played at Burgeys club here in Sydney so that’s where a lot of it comes from lol

 

[GIMH]

The only time anyone should listen to @Burgey is when he’s suggesting gentleman’s establishments

 

[Qlder]

Can’t remember exactly but might have just been last few years. They went onto mention output after keeping highlighting his only decent performance this series being before he kept. Not a coincidence

Bairstow as Keeper in 1st innings where he hasn't kept averages 52.70, and then averages 35.33 in his 2nd innings

When he bats 2nd after keeping he averages 27.20 in 1st innings and 16.64 in his 2nd

So clue for Bairstow as keeper is to bat first, totally opposite to Bazball (Bairstow as batsman only averages 52.72 in 4th innings chasing)

 

[GIMH]

Bairstow as Keeper in 1st innings where he hasn't kept averages 52.70, and then averages 35.33 in his 2nd innings

When he bats 2nd after keeping he averages 27.20 in 1st innings and 16.64 in his 2nd

So clue for Bairstow as keeper is to bat first, totally opposite to Bazball (Bairstow as batsman only averages 52.72 in 4th innings chasing)

Cheers, probably that

 

[Daemon]

Bairstow as Keeper in 1st innings where he hasn't kept averages 52.70, and then averages 35.33 in his 2nd innings

When he bats 2nd after keeping he averages 27.20 in 1st innings and 16.64 in his 2nd

So clue for Bairstow as keeper is to bat first, totally opposite to Bazball (Bairstow as batsman only averages 52.72 in 4th innings chasing)

This is really breaking things down to too granular a level.

The simplest explanation appears to be that it’s not easy to come back from a serious injury to a position that requires plenty of athleticism. He’s failed there and it’s hit his confidence which is affecting his batting.