Jack Leach out of the Ashes

[slowfinger]

The way he's been used by England under Baz, is to keep bowling even when getting smashed, which leaves the seamers fresh, and they've thrived on it TBH, rather than see Jimmeh or Broad coming into his 4th spell on the opening day, which invariably happens when we go without a spinner, or like under Root, showed no confidence in the twirler.

Not sure how many overs Woakes has bowled recently, but we could be going in with two carrying injuries, sick-note Wood and Woakes who is 34. Ho-hum.

Bowling when smashed? I think I'd thrive if Stokesy asked me to do that

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Stokes keeps saying he will be fit to bowl in ashes I guess the proof will be in the pudding come next week. If he can't bowl then Moeen playing makes sense as him at 8 lengthens the batting and gives us an experienced option at least with the ball.

 

[Ashes81]

It has to be said that the search for someone to replace Leach shows just how bare the cupboard is in England for spinners.

We've asked Moeen if he fancies coming out of retirement - he hasn't played a red ball game for over 2 and a half years.

Adil Rashid falls into the same category - except its about 4 years since he last bowled more than 10 overs in an innings.

Next come the spinners that barely bowl for their counties, Jacks and Livingstone. Christ on a bike - these are basically white ball batsmen that bowl a bit of spin, and I use the word spin in the loosest sense of the word.

So then to the 2 actual spinners that actually play red ball cricket for their county - Dawson and Ahmed.

Dawson hasn't played a test for about 5 years and Ahmed has 6 wickets in the 2nd division this season at 50 odd a throw.

It really is a disgraceful state of affairs.

 

[Starfighter]

We've asked Moeen if he fancies coming out of retirement - he hasn't played a red ball game for over 2 and a half years.

Last time a team played an offspinning all-rounder who hadn't played FC cricket for several years against us we suffered a historic series loss.

The spin cupboard is bare because teams have no incentive (especially with the current CC schedule) to play two spinners or play a proper spinner over a batsman who can bowl twelve overs of darts. Like Surrey playing Jacks while Verdi and Moriarty go to waste. Of course one part of the solution (stop penalising pitches which turn and start penalising ones that are barely cut) has been clear for years. I think England has enough talent, they just can't get matches.

 

[slowfinger]

It has to be said that the search for someone to replace Leach shows just how bare the cupboard is in England for spinners.

We've asked Moeen if he fancies coming out of retirement - he hasn't played a red ball game for over 2 and a half years.

Adil Rashid falls into the same category - except its about 4 years since he last bowled more than 10 overs in an innings.

Next come the spinners that barely bowl for their counties, Jacks and Livingstone. Christ on a bike - these are basically white ball batsmen that bowl a bit of spin, and I use the word spin in the loosest sense of the word.

So then to the 2 actual spinners that actually play red ball cricket for their county - Dawson and Ahmed.

Dawson hasn't played a test for about 5 years and Ahmed has 6 wickets in the 2nd division this season at 50 odd a throw.

It really is a disgraceful state of affairs.

Now is that the fault of the players or maybe the god awful spinning pitches England prepare for spinners

 

[Burgey]

I do wonder if we'll now look to leave a bit more grass on the wicket.

I've argued on here for a while that we don't generally produce green seamers but given we're struggling with the spinning options, why not use our home advantage and produce something which plays to our bowling strengths.

Yeah, but what will it do to your batting?

 

[honestbharani]

Last time a team played an offspinning all-rounder who hadn't played FC cricket for several years against us we suffered a historic series loss.

Who?

 

[Burgey]

Peter Taylor

 

[Aidan11]

Moeen has now been approached.

I think he will say yes.

 

[Starfighter]

Peter Taylor

Never knew he played against us.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Going back to Moeen would be a joke. He's retired.
Either pick Jacks, Dawson or Rehan - or go without a specialist front-line spinner

Dawson would be darkhorse pick itbt. Underrated cricketer

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Yeah I'd prefer Dawson to Moeen at this point. Reckon both his batting and bowling might be better in red ball these days (in that he actually plays it).

 

[trundler]

There's really no way out of this one for the selectors.

If they pick Rehan Ahmed or Bess

"lol he can't even hack it in D2"

If they pick Moeen

"lol they brought him out of retirement, should've picked someone who's at least played an FC game recently"

If they pick Parkinson

"lol can't even crack his county's best XI"

If they pick Dawson

"lol he hasn't played a test in 7 years, why bother"

 

[Daemon]

There's really no way out of this one for the selectors.

If they pick Rehan Ahmed or Bess

"lol he can't even hack it in D2"

If they pick Moeen

"lol they brought him out of retirement, should've picked someone who's at least played an FC game recently"

If they pick Parkinson

"lol can't even crack his county's best XI"

If they pick Dawson

"lol he hasn't played a test in 7 years, why bother"

Has anyone said that about Dawson? To me it seems a simple choice between all quicks and Dawson.

 

[trundler]

Has anyone said that about Dawson? To me it seems a simple choice between all quicks and Dawson.

I've read it. Looks like the best option though. Moeen looks like the preferred option now. Could go very badly.

 

[Ashes81]

Yeah, but what will it do to your batting?

That's a fair point.

It could be argued that our top order batting will struggle against your attack anyway.

Whereas if the ball does more, then even Smith and Marnus will find it tough going and your other batsmen won't be able to cope.

Home advantage always enables an element of providing pitches that suit the home team more but I don't like any team, including England, to go over the top.

I certainly wouldn't want 5 green seamers produced and I very much doubt that there will be.

 

[Molehill]

I've read it. Looks like the best option though. Moeen looks like the preferred option now. Could go very badly.

It seems daft reasoning anyway. Swann went 8 years between his first England Tour and his Test debut.

Dawson's figures are a bit misleading this Summer, he's played in 6 matches, but only bowled in 6 innings. And even then he averages under 12 overs an innings. So his 9 wickets at 24 are a decent return, with an Econ at 3.14 quite key too. He also has 9 wickets at 12 (Econ 6.35) in the Blast. Hants have only taken 10 wickets by spin in total in the CC which would suggest he's not exactly played on friendly pitches.

 

[wpdavid]

It seems daft reasoning anyway. Swann went 8 years between his first England Tour and his Test debut.

Dawson's figures are a bit misleading this Summer, he's played in 6 matches, but only bowled in 6 innings. And even then he averages under 12 overs an innings. So his 9 wickets at 24 are a decent return, with an Econ at 3.14 quite key too. He also has 9 wickets at 12 (Econ 6.35) in the Blast. Hants have only taken 10 wickets by spin in total in the CC which would suggest he's not exactly played on friendly pitches.

This is all eminently sensible. Whether Dawson's a better bet than a fourth quick with Root turning his arm is a separate question. But if we do want to play a specialist spinner, then surely he's our best bet. At the risk of sounding like an old reactionary, I'm not thrilled about having to persuade Moeen to play if he isn't completely sold on the idea. And it's not as if his later form in tests was anything special anyway.

 

[Nicky]

I know this is not quite related, but don't you think Malan would be a good choice to open with Duckett ? He can also bowl usefull legbreaks
His recent scores : 95*, 83, 81* (all 3 in T20) He's playing righ now against Leicestershire
He's a great player, and I feel he deserve a place in Test cricket...

Malan, Duckett, Pope, Root, Stokes, Bairstow, Dawson/Ali, Robinson, Broad, Wood, Anderson

There we go ! 4,5 seam options, 3 spin options, and an excellent batting line-up!

 

[sledger]

There's no way in hell they are sacking Crawley for Malan.