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*Official* New Zealand vs Pakistan 2022/23
- Thread starter straw man
- Start date
Neil Young
State Vice-Captain
Franklin was a genuine all-rounder through school and age-group stuff. I think the only reason he was marshalled down the bowling route is that he was a left armer. Hugely capable with both bat and ball.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, I can't remember any quotes to this effect, but I always got the strong impression that Franklin didn't like bowling that much and preferred batting. Certainly never made a strong effort to get back to his old self after the knee surgery in 2007. But dunno, maybe he genuinely had doctors telling him he'd never be able to put the same amount of pressure on it, and therefore decided to go the Butler rout.
straw man
Hall of Fame Member
That's my memory too - the desire to be primarily a batsman came from Franklin himself. Unfortunately he wasn't quite good enough to be an international batsman in any format. Still had a good domestic and County career and got to spend two seasons in the IPL, much of which was spent (quite incredibly) opening the batting with Sachin Tendulkar. But would have been interesting to see how good he could have been as a pure bowler if he'd gone that route.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Personally, I would have preferred if Andre Adams had played a lot more tests (played one and helped us win).
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Yeah Adams was basically Kiwi Philander and I seriously believe he might have had a similar career if they let him. They made him play a lot of ODIs even though he wasn't really very good at them and held him back from Tests even though he was having seasons averaging 9 with the ball because his ODI "auditions" weren't going well.
G. S. Kohli
International Vice-Captain
Andre Adam one test wonder but 47 int'L with 450 runs & 60 odd wkts including 53 in ODI
He is 47 now
RossTaylorsBox
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Thanks bot
thierry henry
International Coach
Kinda repeating others but: my recollection is that Franklin (and Oram) were both batting all-rounders prior to being shoehorned into bowling all-rounder roles for the Black Caps because it suited team balance circa 2001. It was more a case of Franklin/NZC failing to adjust to the reality that he was a better prospect with the ball, rather than him switching to batting.
Also with Adams, he absolutely should’ve been given a late-career run in tests but I don’t recall him being seriously seen as a test prospect by anyone until he was in his 30s? I have no idea if his stats were always gun but I don’t think there was ever a big push by fans to suggest that he belonged in the test team. I thought it was more that he developed into Philander by about age 32 and we should’ve had 5 years of him in the test team.
Also with Adams, he absolutely should’ve been given a late-career run in tests but I don’t recall him being seriously seen as a test prospect by anyone until he was in his 30s? I have no idea if his stats were always gun but I don’t think there was ever a big push by fans to suggest that he belonged in the test team. I thought it was more that he developed into Philander by about age 32 and we should’ve had 5 years of him in the test team.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, given the paucity of NZ’s bowling stocks in the 2008-2011 period, it’s hard to believe that Adams didn’t get an extended run at some point. Having said that I’m a bit more skeptical about how successful he would’ve been pitches (both in NZ and around the world) were so flat during that period that I’m not sure how effective he would’ve been in tests regardless of how many squillions of wickets he was taking in county cricket.
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Wasn't there also there "problems" with Adams personality? I.e. he actually had one, and wasn't someone who changed himself to fit with the team, as opposed to any genuine problems.
Moss
International Captain
Coach Bracewell wasn’t a fan IIRC. Should have been selected over Kyle Mills in tests during that period for sure.
thierry henry
International Coach
If anything Mills could’ve played more tests imo
Despite everything else I think the main resistance to picking Adams was as simple as ‘he’s 30+ and we already thought we’d discarded him as an international player’. Just a pretty typical example of a failure to reevaluate a player who had changed/improved.
Despite everything else I think the main resistance to picking Adams was as simple as ‘he’s 30+ and we already thought we’d discarded him as an international player’. Just a pretty typical example of a failure to reevaluate a player who had changed/improved.
jcas0167
International Debutant
It looks like Adams signed with Notts in 2008 as a Kolpak player. Aside from being one of the top wicket takers year in year out, in 2011 he hit 31 sixes in English first class cricket. Imagine today he would get snapped up in Big Bash or another T20 comp.
I would love to see how he would have gone on the 2004 tour to England where we had various injuries and lost all 3 tests. He probably would have fared better than Tuffey did. As someone above said, they seemed to discard him based on some poor ODI games but his bowling was probably better suited to red ball cricket.
Neil Young
State Vice-Captain
The discussion surrounds whether they were bits or pieces.