*Official* New Zealand in Australia 2022

[Moss]

But we've known for a long time now that Kane for all his glory, doesn't have a handle on captaining spinners.

Wasn’t just handling of spinners, he also had just one slip in for the pacemen throughout when Australia were reeling.

 

[SteveNZ]

Wasn’t just handling of spinners, he also had just one slip in for the pacemen throughout when Australia were reeling.

Yeah, I really wanted us to keep the foot on the throat at 5-50 and hence why I was bemused about Santner. With Carey + Green + Maxwell being guys who could (and eventually did) take the game away from us, I would've liked to have seen a bit more heat put on them. Looks like Carey rode his luck a bit, to be fair.

The other issue I see coming up is Trent Boult. We're a pretty average ODI side without him spear-heading us. The issue is, with him handing back the contract, we're really in a moral dilemma here. We can continue to pick him around the big domestic leagues he wants to play in, which if you look in no further depth seems the prudent idea to win games - and from all Trent has said, he wants to keep playing for us (ie have his cake and eat it). However, that's a Pandora's box in terms of the message it sends to other guys that they can do the same. I know they're not in the same class, but Colin Munro and Mitch McClenaghan were overlooked for NZ selection because they chose franchises overseas. CdG retired but if he hadn't, can he pick and choose? Can Neesham? Will Conway go that way, seeing as he's now desired in the IPL and maybe abroad? What message does it send to Finn Allen, who can't get a game right now but is going to be lucrative to franchises?

I think it's a really interesting time for NZC, and I worry the man in charge isn't equipped to deal with it effectively.

 

[thierry henry]

I always keep wondering how Santner gets into this team regularly

Because it’s pretty standard to pick a spinner and he’s our best

 

[Howsie]

Neesham has to be in the side.

How do we go about getting Santner out then? Just pick worse spinners? Ajaz?

Santner's fine. Didn't bowl that well today but still the leading white ball spinner. 10 overs of Neesham/Macewell is a problem though, I wouldn't have them both in the same XI (preferably Macewell out, but they're determined to pick him). Maybe worth trying Mitchell or Phillips in that role though I don't have high hopes. Need to find someone who can bowl to a similar standard as de Grandhomme and bat respectably.

Oh, I’m definitely picking both Neesham and Santner. I’m just not a fan of Bracewell obviously, nor much of a fan of only picking three specialist bowlers with the those three already mentioned in the team also.

Stead and Williamson would never do it because they’re the most defensive Coach/Captain of all time but I’d be looking at playing Neesham @ 6 and Santner @ 7.

Four quicks in Australia plus Santner, or three quicks in Asia plus Santner and another spinner. I’d love to know why someone like Rippon isn’t in this squad. He should be getting as much game time as possible, just to see what we have there.

 

[thierry henry]

Oh, I’m definitely picking both Neesham and Santner. I’m just not a fan of Bracewell obviously, nor much of a fan of only picking three specialist bowlers with the those three already mentioned in the team also.

Stead and Williamson would never do it because they’re the most defensive Coach/Captain of all time but I’d be looking at playing Neesham @ 6 and Santner @ 7.

Four quicks in Australia plus Santner, or three quicks in Asia plus Santner and another spinner. I’d love to know why someone like Rippon isn’t in this squad. He should be getting as much game time as possible, just to see what we have there.

Santner pretty clearly is a specialist bowler though. Yesterday it was us who already had 4 specialist bowlers whereas Australia only had 3.

Ok, he's not a good red ball bowler and he's not much of a wicket taker, but his role in white ball cricket is frontline spinner.

Whether it's acceptable in the modern game to have a Gavin Larsen-style specialist bowler who basically isn't there to take wickets is another question, but sort of a moot point unless we come up with a better spinner.

 

[Howsie]

Santner pretty clearly is a specialist bowler though. Yesterday it was us who already had 4 specialist bowlers whereas Australia only had 3.

Ok, he's not a good red ball bowler and he's not much of a wicket taker, but his role in white ball cricket is frontline spinner.

Whether it's acceptable in the modern game to have a Gavin Larsen-style specialist bowler who basically isn't there to take wickets is another question, but sort of a moot point unless we come up with a better spinner.

Yeah, he’s a frontline bowler, I still class him as an all rounder though. I think he’s decent enough to play @ 7 for New Zealand especially if we had Rippon or Jamieson @ 8

 

[Howsie]

Not a single player for New Zealand last night was under 30, Gary Steads ultimate fantasy.

I wonder how many teams in the history of ODI cricket have ever done that, wouldn’t be many you’d have to think

 

[thierry henry]

Not a single player for New Zealand last night was under 30, Gary Steads ultimate fantasy.

I wonder how many teams in the history of ODI cricket have ever done that, wouldn’t be many you’d have to think

Crazy, I raised this last night and came here to ask the exact same question again (not that I think anyone will somehow do this research for me).

You would have to think it's extremely rare in any form of international or even FC cricket.

 

[NZTailender]

Crazy, I raised this last night and came here to ask the exact same question again (not that I think anyone will somehow do this research for me).

You would have to think it's extremely rare in any form of international or even FC cricket.

Australia had two under 30s, but also two 35 year olds. I'm sure some stats nerd could figure out the mean age of both sides, would be interesting to see how close it is. NZ seems to be mostly 30-33 year olds.

 

[thierry henry]

Australia had two under 30s, but also two 35 year olds. I'm sure some stats nerd could figure out the mean age of both sides, would be interesting to see how close it is. NZ seems to be mostly 30-33 year olds.

Yeah it’s not so much about the team being massively old, just that it’s got to be extremely rare to not even have a token 28 or 29 year old

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Not a single player for New Zealand last night was under 30, Gary Steads ultimate fantasy.

I wonder how many teams in the history of ODI cricket have ever done that, wouldn’t be many you’d have to think

Not that ODIs will probably exist in 10 years sadly, but Stead is working towards a lifetime contract and a team of James Andersons.

 

[SteveNZ]

To be fair, that 30-34 year group has been the one that has carried us to WTC glory, World Cup finals etc and is a probably never to repeated golden age for our country. But they certainly don't want to paint themselves into a corner where a hell of a lot of them are retiring with the ones below having been starved for game time.

I'd have played Finn Allen at all costs, but I acknowledge that it might not be the best idea on balance/experience etc.

 

[thierry henry]

Actually I think the team balance makes a lot more sense with Bracewell out and Allen in.

 

[SteveNZ]

Actually I think the team balance makes a lot more sense with Bracewell out and Allen in.

Yeah actually it does, with Latham going down a spot, Conway at 4. Mitchell at 6 seems a touch low but he's just as accomplished at building an innings as he is at finishing, so I think it works.

I really can't see Michael Bracewell being an effective cricketer against major nations. Bits and pieces cricketer who might pad stats v lesser sides

 

[thierry henry]

....and I don't even really rate Allen, but (a) we already have enough bowlers (b) Bracewell isn't a bowler anyway and it seems like the only way we can discourage him bowling is to get him out of the side (c) Latham is a proper #5 (d) Conway is obviously a good opener but him at 4 and the Conway/Latham/Mitchell middle order is also a pretty enticing prospect

Oh right Steve just said all these things

 

[thierry henry]

Bracewell isn't even really a bits and pieces cricketer, he's a batsman who isn't good enough, being shoehorned into a bits and pieces role because the whole set up is pretending he can bowl a bit. All this while we already have an obviously better bat who can also pretend to bowl, in Phillips. It's bewildering.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Bracewell isn't even really a bits and pieces cricketer, he's a batsman who isn't good enough, being shoehorned into a bits and pieces role because the whole set up is pretending he can bowl a bit.

Mark Craig, except he was shoe-horned into a specialist spinner role for some reason

 

[Flem274*]

Bracewell isn't even really a bits and pieces cricketer, he's a batsman who isn't good enough, being shoehorned into a bits and pieces role because the whole set up is pretending he can bowl a bit. All this while we already have an obviously better bat who can also pretend to bowl, in Phillips. It's bewildering.

it's quite incredible aye.

steve said above we will never repeat this golden age. i mean, the hadlee team was better, but we'd give ourselves a better chance of being consistently good if we didn't shotgun our own feet all the time.

other countries have actual real problems like economic collapses, bombs going off and being english and us in the first world with a sports mad culture are going oh boo hoo be nice to us we have no depth we try so hard how could we ever compete with bangladesh when we don't have a spinner or genuine pace who take wick....no no don't look in the ajaz and lockie corner.

 

[SteveNZ]

Mark Craig, except he was shoe-horned into a specialist spinner role for some reason

Don't come after my man, or I'll bore you to death for weeks with the story of how he was once the 4th choice off-spinner in his club side, and forever stands as a 50-Test wicket man who won a few Tests for his country in the fourth innings - something no one had done for years, then Ajaz showed he might be able to do it and we've dropped him ever since.

Almost can guarantee Mark Craig's Test batting average of 36 won't be beaten by Bracewell, either.

 

[_Ed_]

won a few Tests for his country in the fourth innings - something no one had done for years

Indeed, and that includes a fair chunk of Vettori's career.