subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
I am open for how others would go about classifying an ATG spinner. But to me there's something wrong with putting Ashwin and Kumble in the same category as Murali and Warne.
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Is Ashwin an ATG spinner / player?
- Thread starter ma1978
- Start date
sunilz
International Regular
By same logic Border , Ponting or Dravid aren't in same class as Sobers, Sachin, Smith or Lara. So they aren't also ATG
_00_deathscar
International Regular
Agreed, the first two weren't smacked around by the Indian team.
TheJediBrah
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Just playing devil's advocate but just because someone puts them in the same category doesn't make the equal. People will day Sachin is an ATG as well as Bradman. Doesn't mean they are equal. Bradman is better than Sachin by a bigger margin that Warne/Murali are better than Kumble/Ashwin
TheJediBrah
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h_hurricane
International Vice-Captain
The problem with this statement is that ATG XIs teams keep changing, every 10 years or so. To give an example, Viv Richards would have made nearly everyone's ATG XI 40 years back. Though he still makes my XI, many would replace him with Tendulkar or Lara or Smith. Same goes for someone like Lillee. Today Mcgrath or Hadlee will be in everyone's shortlist of greatest bowlers ever. 50 years down the line, when someone better emerges, they may get pushed out of an ATG XI. Does that mean they are lesser cricketers than they once were ? Absolutely not. Will they still be ATG cricketers ? Absolutely yes. To quote it simply , once an ATG, always an ATG. When a larger pool of players emerge, you will need to broaden your list of ATG players to pick from. So 10 becomes 15, 15 becomes 20 and so on.
On a side note, you may still have valid points on not rating Ashwin as an ATG. Fair enough on that front.
Literally the stats geeks here are the only ones who follow cricket who wouldn’t think of Akram as an inner circle atg and I realize there are differences in clarification. This is fine of the fly so don’t hold me to it but the way I see it is the atgs are the 50 or so best of all time characterized as follows. Obv some personal bias here
GOATs
bradman
Sobers
Inner Circle ATG (20)
hobbs
Hammond
Sutcliffe
Hutton
Gavaskar
tendulkar
Lara
Richards
Smith
Gilchrist
Steyn
Mcgrath
Ambrose
Hadlee
Imran
Akram
Lillee
Warne
Murali
grinmett
ATGs (28)
Sehwag
Sangakkara
Khan
Inzamam
Dravid
Ponting
Kohli
Williamson
Root
Mirandad
Border
Barrington
Chappell
Pollock
Miller
Headley
Weekes
Walcott
Knot
Younis
Walsh
Anderson
Trueman
Lindwall
Davidson
O’Reilly
Ashwin
Kumble
GOATs
bradman
Sobers
Inner Circle ATG (20)
hobbs
Hammond
Sutcliffe
Hutton
Gavaskar
tendulkar
Lara
Richards
Smith
Gilchrist
Steyn
Mcgrath
Ambrose
Hadlee
Imran
Akram
Lillee
Warne
Murali
grinmett
ATGs (28)
Sehwag
Sangakkara
Khan
Inzamam
Dravid
Ponting
Kohli
Williamson
Root
Mirandad
Border
Barrington
Chappell
Pollock
Miller
Headley
Weekes
Walcott
Knot
Younis
Walsh
Anderson
Trueman
Lindwall
Davidson
O’Reilly
Ashwin
Kumble
karan_fromthestands
State Captain
Ashwin will easily by an ATG by the end of his career. He was evolving outside SC earlier in his career, but now he seems like someone who can adapt to any given condition and contribute. His last series in Australia proves how much he has improved overtime, sad that Kohli doesn't have enough confidence in him. His numbers are only going to improve and I hope he focuses on test and keeps playing till he is 38-39.
Curious to know which Pollock you left out on a list that long?
people on this site can’t separate individual stats from team context in a team sport it’s truly baffling
Flem274*
123/5
Lol, knew this would still be going. He's 35, still gets benched at the sight of grass and he isn't going to get time to show any better. He's not an ATG, no matter how hard you push the narrative.
I'd have time for the argument if he actually played, but he doesn't does he. You can't blame it all on Kohli - Ashwin has been sitting on the sideline in SENA his whole career. If your like for like is getting picked ahead of you when one must be cut, you're not great.
I'd have time for the argument if he actually played, but he doesn't does he. You can't blame it all on Kohli - Ashwin has been sitting on the sideline in SENA his whole career. If your like for like is getting picked ahead of you when one must be cut, you're not great.
sunilz
International Regular
Can this logic be also used for Kane ? He develops injuries in every difficult away tour (IND 2016, 2021, ENG 2021, AUS 2020)
Only narrative being pushed here is by you though? Might as well **** on Southee for being a swing and seam bully just because he couldn't do **** at Wankhede.
Shaun but obviously he should be there
Flem274*
123/5
ah yes, i thought the pair of you might have something to say.
if you can't see the issues with your own statements here, and i think you can because i like to believe you have at least enough brain activity to keep your lungs functioning, then im afraid i can't really help you and will leave you to it.
Southee averaged 23 in India before this game btw. That's lower than Ashwin's career average on unhelpful decks for a tall real bowler.
he plays in the antipodean country we care about not the one we just beat by 300 runs
Flem274*
123/5
you mean the one where he averages 42?
and you care son. the sulking and revisionism when India lose to NZ is always a beautiful read. it's a pity Ashwin isn't good enough to play in those games.
sunilz
International Regular
Still no answer about Williamson faking injury on difficult overseas tour .