***Official New Zealand in India Nov-Dec 2021 Thread***

[_00_deathscar]

Pant, Brisbane heroics aside seems a bit overrated & bit of a predetermined slogger

Awful take.

 

[OverratedSanity]

We took mercy by not playing Lord Thakur. Who cares about Kohli lmao

 

[harsh.ag]

India only bring out the lord against important teams

 

[Bahnz]

Nah, I would understand if he got the shoulder tap and I was fuming during captaincygate because of how it was done. This is just something fair for the good of the team that can be handled in a tactful way. Captaincygate was anything but handled well.

"Hey man, we're stripping you of the captaincy after this game, good luck tomorrow!"
*game occurs, Taylor goes massive, NZ win etc*
"Hey so we're still taking it off you"
*media get wind of circumstances, ask if Hesson/White really were braindead enough to do it the night before a game*
"Nooooooo we didn't. Also we're giving the captaincy to a bloke who averages less than 30 opening"

It's kind of amazing we not only got away with this mess but everything went as well as it did. Contrary to the narrative from certain former players, the team was already rising in quality. Williamson, Taylor, Southee and Boult were on the board.

I think it speaks to the character of all the players involved that the side survived such a public drama.

Oh man, the drama of when Hesson said "Oh, we just meant that we were giving the ODI captaincy to Brendon" and then Shane Bond saying "that's not the way I remember it" literally a day later. Hesson was so lucky he didn't get binned there and then. I'm convinced the only reason he didn't was because NZ had already gone through about 5 coaches in the prior 3 years.

 

[Athlai]

I’ve gradually shifted to the opinion that Hesson held us back from this current golden run occurring sooner.

 

[Bahnz]

I’ve gradually shifted to the opinion that Hesson held us back from this current golden run occurring sooner.

He'll always get points for plucking CdG out of obscurity. There wasn't a poster among us (except for maybe Steve) who thought Lord Colin was anything more than no account no-rounder who'd be rudely shown the door before the end of the season. He also deserves props for putting an end to the revolving door of openers and settled on a sensible batting order. Moved Kane up to 3, Brendon down to 5, booted out van Wyk for Watling and waited the perfect amount of time to bring in Latham. All in all, it's hard to work out how much was him and how much was fortunate timing, but he made fairly sensible decisions once the (extremely) rocky opening phase of his tenure was over and done with.

 

[Moss]

I’ve gradually shifted to the opinion that Hesson held us back from this current golden run occurring sooner.

Difficult to share that opinion because a lot of players only started to put up performances around exactly the time Hesson joined (India tour in Aug 2012). Southee had been terrible for a couple of years before that breakout test in Bangalore, Boult wasn't a regular first XI player until that tour, KW was averaging below 30 after 2 years in test cricket, and NZ were still holding on to guys like Franklin and Flynn. Taylor was the only one who had really improved in that period.

If anything the team had gone backwards under Wright after the Doug Bracewell test in Hobart.

 

[Bahnz]

If anything the team had gone backwards under Wright after the Doug Bracewell test in Hobart.

Wright wasn't helped by Allan Donald walking out 3 months after signing a 2 year contract, and John Buchanan being given free reign to treat NZ as his own personal cricket laboratory. NZ cricket was just in an absolute state at the time.

Having said that, I do think that John Wright might not have been a great fit for NZ. Good for India, as he brought a lot of modern discipline and professionalism to what was at the time still a fairly semi-professional management set-up, but all of that had been entrenched in NZ in Rixon's era. Was also an old school authoritarian who didn't mind having a go at the players after a bad day in the field, and I don't think that meshed at all well with the younger members.

 

[Moss]

Wright wasn't helped by Allan Donald walking out 3 months after signing a 2 year contract, and John Buchanan being given free reign to treat NZ as his own personal cricket laboratory. NZ cricket was just in an absolute state at the time.

Having said that, I do think that John Wright might not have been a great fit for NZ. Good for India, as he brought a lot of modern discipline and professionalism to what was at the time still a fairly semi-professional management set-up, but all of that had been entrenched in NZ in Rixon's era. Was also an old school authoritarian who didn't mind having a go at the players after a bad day in the field, and I don't think that meshed at all well with the younger members.

Yeah not all of that was under Wright's control, and to his credit he was the one who pushed for Watling to change from an average specialist bat to a full-time wicketkeeper. Was probably the wrong time and place for him.

 

[Flem274*]

I'm beginning to be concerned with the lack of batting depth below Phillips, who hasn't exactly begun crushing FC cricket yet himself.

I can't think of much below him. When Taylor retires or is dropped the specialist batting talent I'm confident for test level is Williamson, Ravindra, Conway, Latham, Young, Nicholls and Phillips.

After Phillips it's probably Chapman, who has improved but I want to see him face Wagner on a quick deck before including him with confidence. 37 year old Greg Hay, Daryl Mitchell and several wicketkeepers are probably the next most talented batsmen which is...thin.

I hate the dukaburra.

 

[Prince EWS]

I don't mind Mitchell as a specialist Test batting option tbh. Not young though, his time will realistically have to be immediately after Taylor's retirement if it's to be at all.

 

[Bahnz]

Tom Bruce actually has pretty smart career stats, but being of the same vintage as Latham and Kane I doubt he'll ever play tests for NZ.

The thing I'm concerned about isn't so much the gap between the frontliners and the chasing pack, but the absence of U25 batsmen really making a name for themselves. Rachin is the exception, and even he hasn't set the world on fire in the past couple of seasons.

 

[_Ed_]

Cooper? Or is that just my Northland bias?

 

[Prince EWS]

Tom Bruce actually has pretty smart career stats, but being of the same vintage as Latham and Kane I doubt he'll ever play tests for NZ.

Yeah Bruce is a fair shout but he's made a lot of those runs at 5 which I think discredits him in the eyes of the selectors a bit. Got a bit of a reputation as a bully of mediocre bowling.

C00per exists.
EDIT: Beaten.

 

[Bahnz]

Cleaver’s also making a strong play for consideration as a batsman in his own right. Looked a class above every other player in the Otago CD game on the weekend.

 

[morgieb]

I'm beginning to be concerned with the lack of batting depth below Phillips, who hasn't exactly begun crushing FC cricket yet himself.

I can't think of much below him. When Taylor retires or is dropped the specialist batting talent I'm confident for test level is Williamson, Ravindra, Conway, Latham, Young, Nicholls and Phillips.

After Phillips it's probably Chapman, who has improved but I want to see him face Wagner on a quick deck before including him with confidence. 37 year old Greg Hay, Daryl Mitchell and several wicketkeepers are probably the next most talented batsmen which is...thin.

I hate the dukaburra.

I'd still take having 7-8 Test bats who could have an impact, and you don't have a shortage of quality keeper-bats either. Age is probably a bit of a query though....only Phillips and Ravindra are significantly under 30.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

I'd still take having 7-8 Test bats who could have an impact

Haha, this was my thought exactly. England would love to have 3-4 Test-quality bats right now, let alone 8!

 

[honestbharani]

edit - it's also only HB (and probably Big3info) arguing this seriously, and he's not worth reading. OS is memeing.

Lol.. the salt intensified so much, huh? ???


Find one post in this test match where I said anything about India A or any of the missing players. I actually don't ****ing care who is playing for us at home. I still ****ing expect.us to win coz the talent is that good. Eat **** haterz... And eat more salt, Flem.

 

[honestbharani]

India only bring out the lord against important teams

Lord had better things to do, like getting engaged. Sundar best man, I am sure. ?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Awful take.

He's looked pretty hackish tbf. He still did all right in England imo, managed a couple of vital little knocks despite the mediocre overall numbers.