***Official New Zealand in India Nov-Dec 2021 Thread***

[Teja.]

He's been a ****ing woeful hack every time he has batted in NZ or England, and it's really obvious why.

He hasn't been good in England but this is overstating it wildly. He does have a century in England in the series he played there as a 19 y/o and he did play a defining match/series-winning innings in a 100 run partnership when India were effectively 200-6 and had just lost 3 wickets for sfa in the second innings at the Oval.

It's worth remembering that he's a No.6 keeper and not a top order batsman so contributions like those can really carry you as a player.

 

[nzfan]

Haha, you won't get it, Kippax has soured a tad on Rachin. Too much starry-eyed urban flamboyance, not enough ingrained obeisance to authority and tradition.

Very likable kid though Rachin. I think Kippax rates his bowling from what I know.

 

[Flem274*]

He hasn't been good in England but this is overstating it wildly. He does have a century in England in the series he played there as a 19 y/o and he did play a defining match/series-winning innings in a 100 run partnership when India were effectively 200-6 and had just lost 3 wickets for sfa in the second innings at the Oval.

It's worth remembering that he's a No.6 keeper and not a top order batsman so contributions like those can really carry you as a player.

I don't remember too many specifics of the England series right now, just the trend. I agree he shouldn't be judged against top order batsmen, but it isn't his detractors doing that, which is where the big differences in assessment are coming from on CW. Well that and in this thread TH just hates aggressive cricketers I think.

 

[Bahnz]

NZ need to be careful not to knee-jerk and end up playing only 1 specialist spinner on a sand pit. Unlikely from what I've heard about the Mumbai surface (generally seems to be rated as one of the more pace friendly in India), but the selectors still have to pick the best XI for the conditions.

 

[Athlai]

Our best XI for any conditions doesn't contain 3 spinners.

 

[Prince EWS]

NZ need to be careful not to knee-jerk and end up playing only 1 specialist spinner on a sand pit. Unlikely from what I've heard about the Mumbai surface (generally seems to be rated as one of the more pace friendly in India), but the selectors still have to pick the best XI for the conditions.

S A N D P I T
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[Immenso]

NZ need to be careful not to knee-jerk and end up playing only 1 specialist spinner on a sand pit. Unlikely from what I've heard about the Mumbai surface (generally seems to be rated as one of the more pace friendly in India), but the selectors still have to pick the best XI for the conditions.

I think we should pick a team for losing the toss.

Although with Kohli back, there is hope ....

 

[SteveNZ]

Our best XI for any conditions doesn't contain 3 spinners.

This is completely true. I don't want us picking 2-3 spinners just because 'this pitch looks like a three spinner track and India are playing 3'. Wagner is better than Somerville in any conditions apart from ragging sideways on day 1

 

[straw man]

Yeah Bruce is a fair shout but he's made a lot of those runs at 5 which I think discredits him in the eyes of the selectors a bit. Got a bit of a reputation as a bully of mediocre bowling.

C00per exists.
EDIT: Beaten.

Yup, scoring most of your FC runs at 6 and occasionally 5 is a big warning sign for NZ domestix batter's ability to go to next level (exc wicketkeeper). Same for L Carter, who had a high average the last two seasons.

 

[Bahnz]

In that regard, the efforts of the O'Donnell brothers last season will be a source of some hope for the selectors long term calculations. Pity they've had no opportunity to show it wasn't a fluke this year.

 

[straw man]

Hopefully we won't need to test that depth for quite some time anyway - after Taylor retires we have six good batsman with long careers ahead (Conway, Latham, Williamson, Young, Nicholls, Ravindra) with Phillips as reserve if someone like Nicholls falls off, plus Mitchell as batting allrounder and three wicketkeepers that can bat.

Agree with Flem (iirc) that there's a 40+ average in Phillips somewhere, though feel he's gone sideways the last couple of seasons. He's only 25 so plenty of time to learn as long as he keeps playing FC cricket. Agree with Moss he didn't look like scoring runs against India's spinners in turning conditions - would be better eased into the side at 5 or 6 at home if there's a spare place.

 

[Days of Grace]

I think we will lose the toss and should plan accordingly. Therefore, Wagner in for Somerville would be the only change I’d make. Wagner should play regardless of the surface. If we had him to bowl at India when they were 50/5 I don’t think they would have ended up declaring.

As an aside, I don’t think enough has been said of Kane’s poor captaincy when India were only 5 down with a 100 run lead. He should have put more in attacking fielders at least until the lead grew to 150. In hindsight, that was where we lost our chance to win.

 

[NZTailender]

This is completely true. I don't want us picking 2-3 spinners just because 'this pitch looks like a three spinner track and India are playing 3'. Wagner is better than Somerville in any conditions apart from ragging sideways on day 1

Tbf I think Somerville might've benefited from bowling at left handers, but you get what you get.

 

[vandem]

... As an aside, I don’t think enough has been said of Kane’s poor captaincy when India were only 5 down with a 100 run lead. He should have put more in attacking fielders at least until the lead grew to 150. In hindsight, that was where we lost our chance to win.

Attacking fielders? 35 of the 39 wickets that fell were bowled / lbw / ct wk or stumped. Only 4 catches to fielders (1 to slip, 1 to cover, 2 lofted to leg side). IIRC NZ had one chance between 2nd slip and gully, can't recall any other in the 3rd innings to a possible close catcher.

On this pitch slowing the scoring, and waiting for next bowled / lbw was a valid option.

Having a 3rd man might have been a useful option, but this isn't an "attacking fielder".

 

[Ghost]

Tom Bruce actually has pretty smart career stats, but being of the same vintage as Latham and Kane I doubt he'll ever play tests for NZ.

The thing I'm concerned about isn't so much the gap between the frontliners and the chasing pack, but the absence of U25 batsmen really making a name for themselves. Rachin is the exception, and even he hasn't set the world on fire in the past couple of seasons.

Troy Johnson has made a pretty good start to his career, averaging over 40 in both First Class and List A ( not including his 70 odd today) but still a pretty small sample size. I think @nzfan rates him quite highly. Taylor Bettelheim seems to have been scoring runs for fun the last couple of years at Hawke Cup level and has been Bay of Plenty Player of the Year for the last two seasons and I think is only 19 or 20. He scored an A level hundred last year and 90 last week so hopefully he continues to progress over the next few seasons. Anyone know what he is like technique wise?

 

[NZTailender]

I decided to do a little digging on this then thought about how much better we fare in the 2nd match of a series away from home. Thinking back to wins over England, Sri Lanka etc.

Most of our side average <40 in the first match of a series away from home, then a few jump to 40> in the 2nd. Someone said earlier in the thread we're quick learners which seem true
Batsman - 1st match away avg (all 1st match avg) - 2nd match away avg (all 2nd match all avg)
Latham - 39.70 (49.21) - 49.16 (41.75)
Williamson - 38.26 (52.86) - 41.25 (47.34)
Taylor - 27.13 (34.53) - 58.02 (58.75)
Nicholls - 24.38 (35.76) - 29.44 (46.26)
Blundell - 37.74 (46.62) - 34.00 (25.42)
Young - 45.50 (32) - 45 (44.33)

If stats are anything to go by, Latham, Williamson, Taylor and Nicholls should all improve this next test, especially the Boss.

For the first tests of the home summer series put money on Kane and Tom to score big then shift that money to the Boss and Nicholls for the second tests.

Nicholls may also be a spud (away from home).

Bored enough to do the same 'analysis' of our bowlers

Bowler - Away 1st Match (overall) - Away 2nd Match (overall)
Southee - 26.45 (26.91) - 31.18 (28.29)
Wagner - 25.07 (25.31) - 29.83 (26.79)
Jamieson - 27.11 (21.13) - N/A (11.17)
Patel - 27.25 (32.56) - 32.25 (34.87)
Boult - 33.51 (30.24) - 31.03 (26.81)

So the opposite of our batsmen - the bowlers start off better overseas, then their average jumps a bit in the second match. I guess this makes sense, if the opposition batsmen get used to them. What's interesting is that Southee and Wagner's home and away averages for a first test of a series are very consistent. This will also be the first time Jamieson has played 2 tests in a row overseas, and if his home record is anything to go by, he'll feast.

Given Boult's not so hot form and the fact he averages over 30 or more away from home, it's a good thing he ruled himself out tbf.

 

[SteveNZ]

Tbf I think Somerville might've benefited from bowling at left handers, but you get what you get.

Oh of course he would've, but India only had one in their XI. I just think we picked him because 'India=spin and they're likely to play 3 spinners and we don't want egg on our faces when it turns square' and ignored the fact Wagner is a better option on 99% of decks.

 

[SteveNZ]

This might have been discussed in another time or place, but surely an asterix next to Kane's name - unless he addresses it - in terms of his ATG status would be his output away from home? As it stands, his records in England (32), India (33), SA (21) and Sri Lanka (26) are incredibly meagre.

 

[NZTailender]

This might have been discussed in another time or place, but surely an asterix next to Kane's name - unless he addresses it - in terms of his ATG status would be his output away from home? As it stands, his records in England (32), India (33), SA (21) and Sri Lanka (26) are incredibly meagre.

Yeah it's disappointing. I feel like the next tour of SA he should rectify that somewhat as they will be at their weakest he's ever played them.

And yet he averages 40+ in Australia, go figure.

 

[Prince EWS]

And yet he averages 40+ in Australia, go figure.

Muh roads.