honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
The ceiling though ?
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***Official New Zealand in India Nov-Dec 2021 Thread***
- Thread starter nzfan
- Start date
RossTaylorsBox
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Tom Latham batting faster would have negated Indian cheating
I instinctually thought 'nah' about this, but then I realise Nicholls is well out of form. Very high % of low scores in the last 2-3 years, and (I usually hate this) his two centuries he should have been dismissed numerous times. His spot won't be up for grabs this Test but it does need to be up for consideration from the summer onwards.
thierry henry
International Coach
Tell me about it, reminds me of that time I bowled absolute heat into his ribcage and he couldn't lay bat on it
thierry henry
International Coach
I mean, Pant does obviously suck. But at the same time, he's good.
Teja.
Global Moderator
Is this the worst post in CW history?
He has played 7 full tests in Australia against a full strength aussie pace attack and has several high quality knocks and an excellently consistent record against them. This is despite basically being a teenager the first time he played there.
He has the highest average of any player across the world in Australia since 2010 (min 500 runs) despite playing stronger bowling attacks on average than most of the others on the list.
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thierry henry
International Coach
Wait are we all supposed to worship Pant now? I wouldn't actually say he's 'bad' because you can't deny some of the contributions he's made.....but his batting is completely repugnant, so it makes sense for most sane fans to dislike him right?
thierry henry
International Coach
Probably, I also find Allen's batting completely absurd which means he's likely to succeed in this godforsaken sport
Teja.
Global Moderator
Some of his conventional shots like his cuts and backfoot punches are exquisite in a very Lara-esque way. He also plays some incredible shots to find gaps when set. Then there's the crazy stuff like reverse sweeping Anderson in the middle of a test match.
That's something that's always made me laugh about society, and CW as a microcosm.
It's actually OK to say Pant is not incredible, not horrible. He's dynamic on his day, but far from consistent - which is no issue for a 24 year old who plays like him. Is he world class? Not for mine. Will he be in the future? Potentially. I guess from an NZ fan point of view, we probably haven't seen enough of his quality - and a lot of us would judge him (not fairly, I'm just saying) on his weird knock in the 2nd innings of the WTC final.
It's actually OK to say Pant is not incredible, not horrible. He's dynamic on his day, but far from consistent - which is no issue for a 24 year old who plays like him. Is he world class? Not for mine. Will he be in the future? Potentially. I guess from an NZ fan point of view, we probably haven't seen enough of his quality - and a lot of us would judge him (not fairly, I'm just saying) on his weird knock in the 2nd innings of the WTC final.
Teja.
Global Moderator
He has a lot of defenders because he has so far almost exclusively makes runs in the most important and clutch situations and has played about half a dozen extremely high quality innings in a very short career yet you have bozos rocking up and saying Pant is a fluke, should be dropped or that he shouldn't be playing test cricket every time he has a bad innings.
Flem274*
123/5
Yeah look, you can't expect big sports fans whose watching splits due to time zones are probably 60% NZ test cricket and 30% Australia + England home summer to rate Pant at all, in fact you should be surprised how many still do thanks to his great innings in Australia, because he owns the single worst innings on NZ soil I have ever seen or likely will see. I wish I had ball by ball of that Hagley innings.
He's been a ****ing woeful hack every time he has batted in NZ or England, and it's really obvious why. From about 10 years old a highlights reel of his batting would be presented to kids here to show exactly how to average 14 at club level.
Superb player for Indian conditions and on true Australian decks, but bringing him to England or NZ is the batting equivalent of Vinay Kumar at the WACA. It's not that he's been unlucky in NZ and England - it's simply that you can't bat with his technique in NZ and England unless you roll up at Napier or day 4 Mt Maunganui.
He's been a ****ing woeful hack every time he has batted in NZ or England, and it's really obvious why. From about 10 years old a highlights reel of his batting would be presented to kids here to show exactly how to average 14 at club level.
Superb player for Indian conditions and on true Australian decks, but bringing him to England or NZ is the batting equivalent of Vinay Kumar at the WACA. It's not that he's been unlucky in NZ and England - it's simply that you can't bat with his technique in NZ and England unless you roll up at Napier or day 4 Mt Maunganui.
nzfan
International Vice-Captain
Watched the ball by ball replay after Kane got out which I had missed out of disappointment. What sticks out is how composed everyone looked even after losing steady the ship Kane. Blundell, Kyle, Southee all looked calm and composed. Although when the camera panned and showed Southee sitting and waiting his turn to bat when Blundell got out you felt like he's thinking can't believe you guys are ****ing this up...
Blundell, Kyle, Southee all spent reasonable time in the middle before the two left handers played like monks in the middle.
What a thriller, shame I missed it despite knowing our guys don't give up that easily. That would have been an amazing watch live although would have caused some heart burn and then the eventual elation. What drama... why don't our guys do it easy?
I get now why Rachin's inning is rated quite highly. Debutant, plenty of rough outside the off, 3 top class spinners, crowd in full attendance, 6 men around the bat, series on the line, no. 11 at the other end, fading light, 5th day pitch, variable bounce, last hour of the hard fought test match, umpires put under pressure consistently, no prior experience of playing on such surfaces, opening bat known to play pace and barely faces any spin at home, the list is endless..... boy that surely deserves a clip made by @Kippax of every ball him and Ajaz played. Half an hour is a very long time to bat in India with one wicket in hand. After the 9th wicket fall I reckon this pair would have been given 0.00001% chance to see out the day. Would be good to know from Indian posters what chance did they give this pair. Wonder how does a 22 year old handle this? Stuff of the legends.
I can understand Rachin a top order bat will have some process and would live for a day like this as a batter but what of Ajaz? He's not expected to bat like that. Amazing composure, solid defence and looked very confident of seeing it out. Doubt if Ajaz would have had much batting training either on the tour. Twice he has done this, one with the ball vs Pakistan and now this. The man is a monk.
I think the NZ team of the 90s or 2000s would have tried to show gamesmanship by delaying the game, tying the lace, asking for drinks or change of gloves and what not. In the process we would have lost the battle in the head. The biggest compliment I could give to this team is their confidence in their ability and not resorting to gamesmanship to get over the line. It only comes if you don't fear losing. Although within their rights they didn't do any of that and just got on with it. So hard to stick to the values in such situations.
Fair bit of credit to the Indian bowlers. What looked like a deadset draw by lunch was turned on its head by the three spinners. Outstanding effort by India to do what they did. It didn't go their way but 99.9% of the times it would have gone their way. Fantastic grace shown by Rahane, Ashwin etc at the end of the game, they gave credit to NZ and moved on. No shame in that.
Blundell, Kyle, Southee all spent reasonable time in the middle before the two left handers played like monks in the middle.
What a thriller, shame I missed it despite knowing our guys don't give up that easily. That would have been an amazing watch live although would have caused some heart burn and then the eventual elation. What drama... why don't our guys do it easy?
I get now why Rachin's inning is rated quite highly. Debutant, plenty of rough outside the off, 3 top class spinners, crowd in full attendance, 6 men around the bat, series on the line, no. 11 at the other end, fading light, 5th day pitch, variable bounce, last hour of the hard fought test match, umpires put under pressure consistently, no prior experience of playing on such surfaces, opening bat known to play pace and barely faces any spin at home, the list is endless..... boy that surely deserves a clip made by @Kippax of every ball him and Ajaz played. Half an hour is a very long time to bat in India with one wicket in hand. After the 9th wicket fall I reckon this pair would have been given 0.00001% chance to see out the day. Would be good to know from Indian posters what chance did they give this pair. Wonder how does a 22 year old handle this? Stuff of the legends.
I can understand Rachin a top order bat will have some process and would live for a day like this as a batter but what of Ajaz? He's not expected to bat like that. Amazing composure, solid defence and looked very confident of seeing it out. Doubt if Ajaz would have had much batting training either on the tour. Twice he has done this, one with the ball vs Pakistan and now this. The man is a monk.
I think the NZ team of the 90s or 2000s would have tried to show gamesmanship by delaying the game, tying the lace, asking for drinks or change of gloves and what not. In the process we would have lost the battle in the head. The biggest compliment I could give to this team is their confidence in their ability and not resorting to gamesmanship to get over the line. It only comes if you don't fear losing. Although within their rights they didn't do any of that and just got on with it. So hard to stick to the values in such situations.
Fair bit of credit to the Indian bowlers. What looked like a deadset draw by lunch was turned on its head by the three spinners. Outstanding effort by India to do what they did. It didn't go their way but 99.9% of the times it would have gone their way. Fantastic grace shown by Rahane, Ashwin etc at the end of the game, they gave credit to NZ and moved on. No shame in that.
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
I decided to do a little digging on this then thought about how much better we fare in the 2nd match of a series away from home. Thinking back to wins over England, Sri Lanka etc.
Most of our side average <40 in the first match of a series away from home, then a few jump to 40> in the 2nd. Someone said earlier in the thread we're quick learners which seem true
Batsman - 1st match away avg (all 1st match avg) - 2nd match away avg (all 2nd match all avg)
Latham - 39.70 (49.21) - 49.16 (41.75)
Williamson - 38.26 (52.86) - 41.25 (47.34)
Taylor - 27.13 (34.53) - 58.02 (58.75)
Nicholls - 24.38 (35.76) - 29.44 (46.26)
Blundell - 37.74 (46.62) - 34.00 (25.42)
Young - 45.50 (32) - 45 (44.33)
If stats are anything to go by, Latham, Williamson, Taylor and Nicholls should all improve this next test, especially the Boss.
For the first tests of the home summer series put money on Kane and Tom to score big then shift that money to the Boss and Nicholls for the second tests.
Nicholls may also be a spud (away from home).
Flem274*
123/5
Yeah if there's anything we've learned from watching Australia lose games to India C or England firsts it's that they panic more than most when the run rate explodes. Pujara's grinding was invaluable, but Pant (and Stokes) really put Australia in a tailspin and on their home decks you can bat aggressively in the middle order without concern for lateral movement.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Haha, you won't get it, Kippax has soured a tad on Rachin. Too much starry-eyed urban flamboyance, not enough ingrained obeisance to authority and tradition.
nzfan
International Vice-Captain
As much as you want some changes I don't think you're going to get more than one change in the black caps side. Wagner will definitely come in either for Rachin or Sommerville. That is fair too I reckon. I don't think we should change the batting line up. They've only had two innings at the most. The next game will definitely be different. I'm guessing there will be more turn, bounce and will be best suited for India to win. I guess this is the pitch we'd have played three spinners but given we didn't pick many wickets chances are one of them will have to go.
Sommerville can bat too as he has shown in both innings in the first test so it's a hard call to drop him. Ajaz is our main spinner and no way he's going to be dropped. I guess the toss up will be between Rachin and Sommerville. As harsh as it sounds, if one of them have to make way so be it I guess. Do we need more bowling options or more batting options is the question. If we need strong bowling line up I'd go with Wagner for Rachin, if batting is what we need then Wagner for Sommerville. Either way it's a tough call.
Sommerville can bat too as he has shown in both innings in the first test so it's a hard call to drop him. Ajaz is our main spinner and no way he's going to be dropped. I guess the toss up will be between Rachin and Sommerville. As harsh as it sounds, if one of them have to make way so be it I guess. Do we need more bowling options or more batting options is the question. If we need strong bowling line up I'd go with Wagner for Rachin, if batting is what we need then Wagner for Sommerville. Either way it's a tough call.