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England (and Wales) gloom, doom and recriminations thread

TheJediBrah

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Now they want youngsters to develop a 360 degree game (whatever the **** that means)
this is news to me. I wouldn't be encouraging **** like scoops, reverse sweeps, focusing on aerial game etc. for anyone under the age of 16. If coaches are really telling children to start doing that I would definitely be questioning it
 

CricAddict

Cricketer Of The Year
Moeen should be playing all formats for England, including tests consistently. Quality player and should not be dropped and picked so often. Should get a consistent run.

Archer, Woakes, Robinson, Moeen, Sam Curran/Wood is a decent bowling line-up to go with, after Anderson and Broad. All of them can bat too and can give the depth to account for weak batting above.

Root, Pope, Buttler, Stokes (when back) and Burns are another 5 who should play all tests. That leaves just 1 open position at the very top to partner Burns.

Burns
------
Pope
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Moeen
Sam Curran
Woakes
Robinson
Archer

looks a decent line-up.
 

TheJediBrah

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Moeen should be playing all formats for England, including tests consistently. Quality player and should not be dropped and picked so often. Should get a consistent run.
I reckon you're saying this because for some reason he always does well against India. I would laugh at the suggestion because I've mostly just seen him in the Ashes and he's been completely useless against Aus
 
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CricAddict

Cricketer Of The Year
Why Buttler a shoe-in though. What exactly has he done in tests?
He is in as a keeper and not as a pure batsman. From what I have seen, he is a better keeper than Bairstow. And there is no one else pushing the door. An average of 34 is decent enough for a keeper.
 

CricAddict

Cricketer Of The Year
I reckon you're saying this because for some reason he always does well against India for some reason. I would laugh at the suggestion because I've mostly just seen him in the Ashes and he's been completely useless against Aus
Yeah, what you are saying is right. I just went by what I have seen, which is mostly India tests. And he always has done well in that.
 

Nintendo

Cricketer Of The Year
I honestly don't know if I've ever seen a weaker England batting lineup (Root excepted obvz) even in 1999. There's not a player in there that you'd back to average 35+ long term, let alone 40. Stoakes coming back will obviously help but I'm not sure what else can be done in the near term. I personally would've stuck with Pope for all his flaws as he at least looks like he's got the potential to offer a bit more.
Pope is injured
 

Nintendo

Cricketer Of The Year
Pope played in Surrey's last couple of one-day matches over the last week or so. Not very well, but he's fit enough to be playing in those games.
Yeah should have specified "was injured". He was deemed not fit enough to play the second test so got released to play for surrey for a bit to get game time. Looked shot to pieces.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
The same applies to England vs Sri Lanka at Headingley in 2014. Sri Lanka started the day barely ahead with 4 second innings wickets down. Then due to a combination of masterly batting, mindless field placements and wayward bowling, Matthews and Herath put on 150+ to get Sri Lanka back in the game. Then Prasad ran through England's top order to leave them 57-5 at the close, well on course to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Yeah, that's not a bad call. It was one of the matches that contributed to my mid-2010s disillusionment with the team. Everything there should have been in their favour, but they lost the match and the series because they just couldn't take advantage of them, with several big names especially culpable with the ball. If I had to rank these days, I'd argue that the presence of Matthews is a slightly mitigating factor, but that's not how I felt at the time.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah should have specified "was injured". He was deemed not fit enough to play the second test so got released to play for surrey for a bit to get game time. Looked shot to pieces.
That was my observation too. My initial thought was that his confidence was shattered by the series in India, but that doesn't totally follow as he scored a couple of big hundreds in the county championship earlier in the season.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
this is news to me. I wouldn't be encouraging **** like scoops, reverse sweeps, focusing on aerial game etc. for anyone under the age of 16. If coaches are really telling children to start doing that I would definitely be questioning it
Definitely happening and state associations should be aware of it as it’s their coaches
 

Red_Ink_Squid

Global Moderator
The same applies to England vs Sri Lanka at Headingley in 2014. Sri Lanka started the day barely ahead with 4 second innings wickets down. Then due to a combination of masterly batting, mindless field placements and wayward bowling, Matthews and Herath put on 150+ to get Sri Lanka back in the game. Then Prasad ran through England's top order to leave them 57-5 at the close, well on course to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
I was there at Headingley for that day of the Sri Lanka match. Not our finest hour for sure. Our bowling being shredded by Matthews at his peak wasn't nearly as embarrassing as getting smashed by Shami and Bumrah, though I guess that's balanced by our batting collapsing to Prasad rather than the currently Indian quartet. Captaincy was awful in both games, though I think Cook's mistake of making no effort to try and dismiss Matthews once he got set wasn't as bad as England yesterday trying to hit the tailender in the head rather than hit his wicket.

My gut feeling is that yesterday was worse, but obviously it's still raw.
 

OverratedSanity

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I was there at Headingley for that day of the Sri Lanka match. Not our finest hour for sure. Our bowling being shredded by Matthews at his peak wasn't nearly as embarrassing as getting smashed by Shami and Bumrah, though I guess that's balanced by our batting collapsing to Prasad rather than the currently Indian quartet. Captaincy was awful in both games, though I think Cook's mistake of making no effort to try and dismiss Matthews once he got set wasn't as bad as England yesterday trying to hit the tailender in the head rather than hit his wicket.

My gut feeling is that yesterday was worse, but obviously it's still raw.
That was the start of a seriously good patch for Prasad tbf. He tore through India a couple of times a few months later. Bit of a shame him body fell apart, his average was plummeting rapidly.
 

Uppercut

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Not an England fan but I think this is second after Adelaide. Looking back on it you see a weak England lineup on a 5th day Adelaide pitch against Warne and McGrath and it's kinda like, OK, **** happens. But that's not how it was at the time. It was the most hyped Ashes series of my lifetime by miles. Most English fans and pundits really felt like they were going to give it a good go.

The mood coming into this series wasn't like that at all, I've never seen them so pessimistic. The bookies had England as comfortable favourites, but most of the English pundits were predicting an India series win, which is a very rare combination. It's harder for a loss to be properly deflating in those circumstances.

Also tbf it's not the Ashes.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
The UAE debacle will always be right up there for me.
Certainly for the batting, and especially because we went into the series ranked number 1 in the world. The final day of the second test probably the standout, being bowled out for 72 chasing 145. Classic English performance of pre-series hubris swiftly becoming a white flag job. See also the 1992/93 tour of India and SL.
 
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