England (and Wales) gloom, doom and recriminations thread

[Jack1]

From NZ 2015 onwards, Ballance was mostly dreadful, but in fairness to the guy, he's still contributed more than most English batsmen to debut since Root (says more about the others than him, but still).

Despite Ballance dropping off in Tests he still has a respectable average of 37.45 from 23 tests and 47.05 in FC. It's fair to give him another chance all things considered - his FC record is much stronger than the other players being talked about - I see Malan or Vince mentioned over him, but considering both averaged mid 20s in tests and under 40 FC I can't really see the justification for test cricket over Ballance. I mean they just disastrously picked Hameed at 3, who now averages under 16 FC in that role - so reverting to Ballance can't really bat an eyelid in comparison. Ballance still averages 46.44 at 3 in Tests (16 tests), I feel he's worth a try for the last 3 games of the series at least.

 

[Jay London]

There don't seem to be many options to bring into the team. Vince perhaps? I'd be tempted to rest Buttler and let Bairstow keep wicket.

 

[Pup Clarke]

I'm probably contradicting myself but I'd be tempted to bring Livingstone in. Good FC record, excellent form and plays spin well

 

[wpdavid]

So we're looking at:

Burns
Hameed
Malan
Root*
Pope/Bairstow
Buttler+
Ali
Woakes
Robinson
Wood
Anderson

I'd keep Bairstow ahead of Pope for the time being. Slim pickings, I know, but three 30ish+ scores out of four makes him our second best bat by quite a bit. And watching Pope in Surrey's recent games on youtube gives me no confidence in his form right now. Hameed opening is a real leap of faith, but what the hell. And we're certainly missing Woakes, so if he is fit, yes please.

Going back to the gloom and doom, I think that this year's results to date have been on the cards for a while now. Whilst our home results have been OK, we've needed borderline miraculous individual heroics rather than strong team performances; the Woakes/Buttler partnership against Pakistan last year, Stokes/Leach at Headingley the year before, and Curran's performance at Edgbaston, and to a lesser extent at Southampton, in 2018. I reckon it's been four years since we comfortably won a home series against good opposition, and now the chickens are coming home to roost. Eventually our luck was going to run out, especially with the well-documented drop in quality of new players joining the squad.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

The big difference this summer is the bowling. Am I right that they’ve yet to take 20 wickets in 4 tests? That would have been unthinkable for most of the past 10-15 years.

Obviously he wasn't part of this match, but Broad has been below his best this summer. And neither Wood nor Curran are as good as Woakes/Archer as the 3rd seamer. And neither Wood nor Curran are as good as Stokes as the 4th seamer.

Otherwise the bowling isn't in terrible shape in the medium term. Broad/Archer/Woakes/Stokes/Stone won't often all be out at the same time you'd hope. And Robinson is a genuinely good find.

 

[wpdavid]

I’m not sure their batting is that much worse than it has been in previous years. Root being in this form is worth a lot.

The big difference this summer is the bowling. Am I right that they’ve yet to take 20 wickets in 4 tests? That would have been unthinkable for most of the past 10-15 years.

It's a real throw back to the dog days of the 1980s and 1990s. Even then, it didn't happen very often, but we failed to take 20 wickets in any of the six Ashes tests in 1989 and in the first five Ashes tests of 1993.

 

[Pothas]

If he is fit then Pope should be in the side.

 

[Burgey]

It's a real throw back to the dog days of the 1980s and 1990s. Even then, it didn't happen very often, but we failed to take 20 wickets in any of the six Ashes tests in 1989 and in the first five Ashes tests of 1993.

Was only thinking last night Curran's bowling reminded me a lot of the halcyon days of Mark Ilott/ Mark Ealham.

 

[Bahnz]

I really don't get England's decision to play 5 bowlers. Their bowling's fine! I understand that Anderson has to deal with archaeologists running excavations on his kit bag, and Wood being stuck together by chewing gum and sticky-tape, but at a certain point you've just got to back your front 4 bowlers to do the majority of the work. No problems with Moeen being one of those 4 if England think that offers the side the best balance, but when your batting is this bad I don't see how anyone can think "You know what will help? Dropping one of the batsmen and bringing in another bowler."

 

[DDP]

Where are the South African born batsman when England need them most.

This is what England are lacking atm.

 

[Bahnz]

Where are the South African born batsman when England need them most.

This is what England are lacking atm.

They decided that NZ is a more appealing place to live. They're right too tbf.

 

[Uppercut]

Obviously he wasn't part of this match, but Broad has been below his best this summer. And neither Wood nor Curran are as good as Woakes/Archer as the 3rd seamer. And neither Wood nor Curran are as good as Stokes as the 4th seamer.

Otherwise the bowling isn't in terrible shape in the medium term. Broad/Archer/Woakes/Stokes/Stone won't often all be out at the same time you'd hope. And Robinson is a genuinely good find.

I wouldn't say terrible shape, but for years the bowlers have been good enough at home to paper over some big cracks. Those days might be over.

I would argue that injuries are the norm for fast bowlers. My theory for why England fans rate Anderson so much higher than everyone else is that when you're following a team, you really appreciate guys who play a lot of games for a very long time without breaking down too often. When he's there, it takes a bit of a freak injury crisis for the attack to look like it has some serious weaknesses. But when he's gone it might just be like that all the time. A lot of teams have a theoretical first-choice attack that looks unplayable, but that never manages to get on the pitch for more than a game or two.

Maybe Robinson can take over that role. He looks pretty durable.

 

[social]

Lots of things have improved in cricket over the years but batting techniques aren’t one of them

I watched a bit of The Hundred the other day and Simon Doull (one of the most knowledgeable commentators imo) claimed that England had more brutal hitters than any other country and hard to disagree

England obviously has the talent BUT the overwhelming majority of English batsmen don’t have the technique or temperament to succeed in the longer format

They’re not Robinson Crusoe in that regard

 

[a massive zebra]

I don't think this was any worse than day 4 of England vs Sri Lanka at Headingley in 2014. India did at least come into day 5 with a fighting chance, which wasn't really the case for Sri Lanka at the end of day 4 in 2014.

 

[a massive zebra]

For me it's the combination of bowling and batting that makes this the worst ever day. No argument that there have been loads of awful batting displays in my time, and this wasn't necessarily the worst of those. There may have been worse bowling displays, but I'm finding it harder to think of them. But I don't remember seeing both in the same day's play. Then again, I am getting old so I don't necessarily remember them now.

The same applies to England vs Sri Lanka at Headingley in 2014. Sri Lanka started the day barely ahead with 4 second innings wickets down. Then due to a combination of masterly batting, mindless field placements and wayward bowling, Matthews and Herath put on 150+ to get Sri Lanka back in the game. Then Prasad ran through England's top order to leave them 57-5 at the close, well on course to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Appropriate titled thread.

Grasping on the rain theme.

 

[Athlai]

This pleases me

 

[TheJediBrah]

Lots of things have improved in cricket over the years but batting techniques aren’t one of them

I watched a bit of The Hundred the other day and Simon Doull (one of the most knowledgeable commentators imo) claimed that England had more brutal hitters than any other country and hard to disagree

England obviously has the talent BUT the overwhelming majority of English batsmen don’t have the technique or temperament to succeed in the longer format

They’re not Robinson Crusoe in that regard

If there was one country that I thought would stick to holding Test cricket in the highest regard and resist the bastardization of batting into technique-less T20 slogging, it was England. Bit disappointing to see them, if anything, lead the way into degeneracy.

 

[social]

If there was one country that I thought would stick to holding Test cricket in the highest regard and resist the bastardization of batting into technique-less T20 slogging, it was England. Bit disappointing to see them, if anything, lead the way into degeneracy.

I am obviously a dinosaur because I simply can’t fathom some of the coaching methods employed in Australia

I was taught that the foundation of a technique was having solid defence on either foot as attacking shots are merely an extension of those positions

That’s gone out the window

Now they want youngsters to develop a 360 degree game (whatever the **** that means)

Unfortunately, most don’t have a reliable defence with the inevitable result being plummeting batting performances

 

[Chubb]

Decline in batting techniques probably correlates with a new focus on one day cricket to avoid the humiliations of 2011 and 2015. That resulted in a world cup win (don't start the debate about whether it was really a win).

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction after all.

Real solution is to stop relying on private schools to produce all your players they are hardly a shining example of technical development right now despite all the $$ and professional coaches etc. But obviously that will never happen. If you really care about cricket I recommend emigrating to New Zealand. England is never going to change.