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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

Daemon

Daemon

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Burgey said:
You're suggesting Jadeja will be taking the new ball then. This isn't the 1890s ffs. If spinners are opening the bowling on anything other than day five or in bad light, then there's something horribly wrong with your cricketing culture. And if Jadeja is going to open the bowling then you won't want a quick like Srinath in your side anyway.
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A

Arachnodouche

International Captain
Srinath bowled the "unlucky" length for most of his career. Also developed the one that held its line rather late. Immensely useful as an Indian seamer of his time (wouldn't mind having him around today either) but his stats are on point overall.
 
Noumenon

Noumenon

U19 Vice-Captain
CricAddict said:
Siraj is an outside chance as well to get into the team when he retires. Except for Srinath, the other 10 here are almost sure of their place. Shami/Zaheer/Ishant/Siraj are strong contenders to replace Srinath.

Probably, we should still have Amar or Nissar there instead of Srinath till a worthy contender can replace him. Amar can bat well too and has got high praises from legends of being the best bowler in the world at that time.
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Siraj has a full throated chance if he stays on the trajectory. Still, as much as I rate most of Shami/Zaheer/Ishant 2.0, they aren't a patch on Srinath. A rung or two above them.

Also, with all due respect to cricketers from pre 70s era, I find it hard to include them in such exercises. No consistent ball by ball footage and when it is available for some, it's amateur stuff all around.
 
Noumenon

Noumenon

U19 Vice-Captain
Arachnodouche said:
Srinath bowled the "unlucky" length for most of his career. Also developed the one that held its line rather late. Immensely useful as an Indian seamer of his time (wouldn't mind having him around today either) but his stats are on point overall.
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Everyone's stats are on point. Make Bumrah do the gruntwork of 25 overs a day in places like AUS with no Shami/Ishant/Siraj and we'll witness his stats being ''on-point''. We saw AUS quicks running on fumes in the last test, Srinath was like that from 1st test onward.
 
harsh.ag

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Noumenon said:
Everyone's stats are on point. Make Bumrah do the gruntwork of 25 overs a day in places like AUS with no Shami/Ishant/Siraj and we'll witness his stats being ''on-point''. We saw AUS quicks running on fumes in the last test, Srinath was like that from 1st test onward.
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Not that I disagree, but does this also make you rank the achievements of Hadlee much higher than other ATG bowlers with a similar record to his?

These are NZ bowling stats from 78-90 in away games
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harsh.ag

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I mean it's still possible for different combinations of support bowlers to have provided good-ish support in many games while still having bad aggregate stats, and that requires a deeper level of analysis.
 
F

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Looks like Coney should've bowled a bit more. He averaged about 40 in the 80s and was an absolute gun slipper and successful captain too.

If you include Coney you need to include Martin Crowe who was decent before stuffing his knee (13 wickets @ 38.53).
 
F

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Shame that the likes of Dayle Hadlee (Richard's big bro), Bruce Taylor, Richard Collinge, and Hedley Howarth (Geoff's big bro) weren't a bit younger. They were all pretty decent bowlers (and probably better than Javagal Srinath for that matter) but all had retired by the start of the period in question.
 
Noumenon

Noumenon

U19 Vice-Captain
honestbharani said:
Yeah but if you start including batsmen as well, then you start thinking of Lara anytime since 95, Sachin in the 90s, Border in the 80s for Australia, Flower for Zim and so on...
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It works differently for bowlers in a very real way. A quality bowler in an otherwise meh attack means the opposition can play him out and take on the rest of mediocrity. There's never a sustained spell of pressure from both ends that's needed for wickets. By the end of the day, the standout bowler is too knackered and it keeps building up through a long series. By the midway or the end of the series, even he'd be copping stick along with the rest of the attack.

With batsmen, they have to play the bowlers all by themselves regardless of those around him. Being part of a strong line-up means a good chance other batsmen are doing their share of scoring runs and there's less pressure, so to speak. But the batsman's personal success isn't affected the way it is in case of bowlers. It's physical for bowlers.
 
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