*Official* Bangladesh Tour of New Zealand 2019

[Dan]

From memory Kane always bowled Ish his fair share, did he not? Obviously in NZ conditions, Kane doesn't see Astle as a threat. As someone said, he'd rather tie up an end with CdG and attack with Wagner when it's flat. Seems to work.

Nah, KW underbowls Ish quite a bit too. Seems to like his spinners as a holding option and obvs you typically don't get too much of that out of wrist spinners.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

After spin bowlers won us the series in the UAE, ZERO wickets have been taken by NZ spinners in the home tests vs SL and Bangladesh thus far

 

[The Hutt Rec]

I thought Astle was pretty rubbish, tbh. Ajaz seemed better in the Sri Lanka tests. But bring in Somerville!

 

[trundler]

How many does Kane need in the next 2 matches to move up to #1

 

[Binkley]

How many does Kane need in the next 2 matches to move up to #1

I don’t know the answer to that, but I see he is now up to 915 rating points, which is at number 25 on Reliance’s list of highest batting ratings ever:

ICC Player Rankings

 

[Fuller Pilch]

How many does Kane need in the next 2 matches to move up to #1

It will depend on the result of the match and how high scoring it is. Nicholls scored a 50 and actually lost points (dropped 2 places too)

 

[Athlai]

A 50 in a 700 runs innings is below average.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

A 50 in a 700 runs innings is below average.

I agree which I why I wrote it depends on how many runs etc are scored

 

[The Hutt Rec]

I’m not a fan of these articles saying it’s now official Williamson is our greatest ever test player. Hadlee was ranked #1 pretty much non-stop from 1984 to 1990 ... he’s got a way to go to match that.

 

[Athlai]

Yeah Williamson is definitely our best batsman ever IMO, but Hadlee is legitimately ATG World XI worthy.

 

[Binkley]

I’m not a fan of these articles saying it’s now official Williamson is our greatest ever test player. Hadlee was ranked #1 pretty much non-stop from 1984 to 1990 ... he’s got a way to go to match that.

I was reading a book about cricket in the ‘80s on the weekend, and it struck me that Hadlee only became an ATG from about the age of 33. And he managed to maintain the same level of genius from that age until he was 40. I would love it if the latter part of one of Southee, Boult or Wagner’s career panned out like that. But I can’t see it happening.

 

[Mike5181]

I think in general it's hard for a specialist batsman/bowler to stack up to an allrounder, especially a great fast bowling one like Hadlee. He is tracking well for a 28 year old, but Williamson would struggle to make a list of the top 25 batsmen of all-time at this stage.

I could see him averaging 55+ with around 40 test centuries but there's so many things that go into that sort of thing. NZ players generally retire earlier, and there's always a chance he could do an Amla as well.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

I was reading a book about cricket in the ‘80s on the weekend, and it struck me that Hadlee only became an ATG from about the age of 33. And he managed to maintain the same level of genius from that age until he was 40. I would love it if the latter part of one of Southee, Boult or Wagner’s career panned out like that. But I can’t see it happening.

Its such a rare thing to happen. I guess James Anderson has done a similar thing later in his career for a more recent example. For some reason I get the feeling Boult is the only one of those three that has it in him, but it’s based on guesswork more than anything.

 

[Immenso]

I was reading a book about cricket in the ‘80s on the weekend, and it struck me that Hadlee only became an ATG from about the age of 33. And he managed to maintain the same level of genius from that age until he was 40. I would love it if the latter part of one of Southee, Boult or Wagner’s career panned out like that. But I can’t see it happening.

Interesting.

Just going on the cumulative career average. Statguru tells me Hadlee was 28 and a half when he got his career bowling average below 30 for the first time (v Windies Carisbrook 1980, when he also became NZ's leading all time wicket take in the same match).

Which is the same age Kane is now.

Hadlee by age 33 was getting his career average down to the 24s

But looking at his year by year career, retrospectively. It is 1978 onwards when he maintains a world class bowling average each season (so from age 26/27)

 

[Binkley]

I have a book Deloitte published back when they were doing the ratings. I think the rating system has changed since it was written, but not too dramatically I imagine. Anyway, according to that Hadlee first hit a rating of 900 when he destroyed Australia in 1985/86, and from that point his rating stayed at the same high level until he retired in 1990. The current Reliance website has a feature when you can look at date-specific ratings. According to that Hadlee had a rating of 840 in early March 1984, and a rating of 897 by the end of that month (when he also became the number 1 ranked bowler). I am guessing that captures the 2-0 home victory over Pakistan where Hadlee did well. He would have been 32 at the time.

 

[Zinzan]

I’m not a fan of these articles saying it’s now official Williamson is our greatest ever test player. Hadlee was ranked #1 pretty much non-stop from 1984 to 1990 ... he’s got a way to go to match that.

Please tell me these articles refer to batting only.

 

[jcas0167]

I have a book Deloitte published back when they were doing the ratings. I think the rating system has changed since it was written, but not too dramatically I imagine. Anyway, according to that Hadlee first hit a rating of 900 when he destroyed Australia in 1985/86, and from that point his rating stayed at the same high level until he retired in 1990. The current Reliance website has a feature when you can look at date-specific ratings. According to that Hadlee had a rating of 840 in early March 1984, and a rating of 897 by the end of that month (when he also became the number 1 ranked bowler). I am guessing that captures the 2-0 home victory over Pakistan where Hadlee did well. He would have been 32 at the time.

Interesting, that by that stage he was bowling off a shorter run up, which he first tried in 1981. Stuart Broad is doing a similar situation thing and sought advice from Hadlee on how to do it.

The 32-year-old then got in touch with Hadlee, who in turn gave Broad a two-page response via email, detailing how and why he changed his approach later in his career.

"It was awesome, wrote Broad. "That in particular was what inspired me to go for it.

"He reckons it gave him an extra six years on his career, that he became meticulously accurate, had such control at the crease that he wouldn't bowl a bad ball and that it gave him more bounce.

"These are all the same reasons that I want to make a change. If it's good enough for one of the best bowlers in history, why not me?"

Surprised to learn Hadlee forced more batsmen to retire hurt during his Test career than any other bowler, apart from Courtney Walsh.

https://www.cricketcountry.com/arti...enon-in-the-pantheon-of-the-greats-28541/amp/

 

[Immenso]

Interesting. I don't recall Hadlee retiring anyone hurt ever in the time I watched him (from 1983 onwards). Watching all NZ home tests and tours to Australia (didn't get to see other overseas tours in those days on telly, except England, but that was in the middle of the night).

 

[Grasshopper]

Interesting. I don't recall Hadlee retiring anyone hurt ever in the time I watched him (from 1983 onwards). Watching all NZ home tests and tours to Australia (didn't get to see other overseas tours in those days on telly, except England, but that was in the middle of the night).

Yeah, I watched him play from the mid-70s and find it hard to believe as well. Especially given all the truly aggressive speed demons who enjoyed lengthy careers in that era alone - Thommo, Andy Roberts, Holding, etc.

 

[Immenso]

The only occasion I remember of Hadlee being particularly aggressive was when he repeatedly bounced Joel Garner in one of the test on the 1985 tour. Apparently this didn't go down well with the Windies nor with his teammates who copped the brunt of the backlash.

I just did a google of Jeremy Coney broken arm, which was an outcome of Hadlee's bouncer barrage ..... and Coney's wikipedia article mentions how as captain:

Coney was the captain who in 1986, after the England wicketkeeper Bruce French was injured by a Hadlee bouncer, allowed Bob Taylor to leave the sponsor's tent and play as a substitute