Was Sehwag the greatest player of spin in the hisory of the game ??

[Migara]

That SL attack consisted of 3 okaish to rubbish bowlers and 1 great spinner. That was hardly a great spin bowling unit.

Vaas was the best bowler in that tour.

 

[Migara]

Shewag, Sidhu, Lara, Tendulkar, Azharuddin, Malik, Gavaskar, Jayawardane all were very good.

 

[Migara]

Siddhu vs. spin myth has been quite persistent here. He played a few good knocks against Warne but they were not the ATG knocks like Tendulakar, Laxman, Sehwag and Dravid played. And I don't recall Siddhu doing very well against other good spinners like Murali and Saqlain. He doesn't have the resume to belong in this discussion.

Sidhu is the one who set the standard for playing Warne and Murali in India. His onslaught in initial exchanges was instrumental in the way Indians handled them. Roll forward half a decade, arrives Saqlain, and destroys India, with all those big names playing. There was no one to play the frenetic knocks that Sidhu played against Murali and Warne. It needed a Shewag against a injured Saqlain to send him out of the game.

 

[greg]

What does Cook average against spin?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Bradman never played O'Riely or Grimmett in tests.

ok

 

[trundler]

He owned them in FC though. Did some pretty bad ass things. Enough for them to be salty for the remainder of their lives.

 

[mr_mister]

He didn't own O Reilly

 

[trundler]

He didn't own O Reilly

Well Grimmett. O'Reilly had his wins too but Bradman was still great against him.

 

[a massive zebra]

Bradman never played O'Riely or Grimmett in tests.

No but he was successful against O'Reilly in first class cricket and he did play Tests against Hedley Verity who was arguably just as good if not better than Grimmett.

 

[a massive zebra]

He didn't own O Reilly

In first class matches in which Bradman faced O'Reilly, he scored 1,194 runs at 91.84 (four centuries, highest score 251 not out) and O'Reilly took his wicket six times.

So although O'Reilly had some success against Bradman, the greatest batsman comes off as the clear winner here.

 

[mr_mister]

I'd be interested to know what his average was specifically against O Reilly

He did rate him the greatest bowler ever so you'd assume he didn't find him too easy to face

 

[TheJediBrah]

I'd be interested to know what his average was specifically against O Reilly

He did rate him the greatest bowler ever so you'd assume he didn't find him too easy to face

If O'Reilly could keep him to an average of around 65-70 against him you'd think he'd be pretty happy with that, which would still be pretty incredible to average that against possibly the greatest spin bowler of all time, but well below Bradman's usual level

 

[a massive zebra]

I'd be interested to know what his average was specifically against O Reilly

He did rate him the greatest bowler ever so you'd assume he didn't find him too easy to face

I don't think those stats are available. All we can say is O'Reilly was responsible for six of Bradman's 13 dismissals when up against teams including O'Reilly, but Bradman still averaged over 90 in these matches and hit four centuries.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I don't think those stats are available. All we can see is O'Reilly got Bradman out six of the 13 times when up against teams including O'Reilly, but Bradman still averaged over 90 in these matches and hit four centuries.

is that 13 matches or 13 innings?

 

[a massive zebra]

is that 13 matches or 13 innings?

Neither. 13 dismissals.

 

[mr_mister]

I've read that during a fund raising game once with OReilly and Bradman on opposing sides OReilly wasn't allowed to bowl until The Don had made his century because they couldn't risk him dismissing him and disappointing the spectators

 

[TheJediBrah]

Neither. 13 dismissals.

90 runs per dismissal, so ~ 1170 runs. 1170/6 = 195 runs per O'Reilly dismissal.

If he made ~20% of his runs of O'Reilly (very big guess) that's an average of ~40 which is extremely low for Bradman's standards.

Obviously this could have varied greatly because we have no idea how many runs he scored directly against O'Reilly, it could be more or less than 20%, but it's almost certainly an average of <50, unless O'Reilly bowled a huge proportion of the overs and hence was scored off a lot more than expected. (Could probably guess more accurately by looking at the scorecards but cbf)

 

[Starfighter]

Average off a bowler is a stupid concept. There's someone bowling at the other end too.

 

[the big bambino]

I've read that during a fund raising game once with OReilly and Bradman on opposing sides OReilly wasn't allowed to bowl until The Don had made his century because they couldn't risk him dismissing him and disappointing the spectators

That’s an O’Reilly story imo. Tiger got 3 cheap wickets and Bradman came in with the score at 51. Lunch was taken very soon after. On resumption Bradman faced Grimmett and most likely a combination of McCormick and Seivers while the ball was new. O’ Reilly came back with the score at 102, with Bradman well short of his first century. Probably 30 at best. If you are to believe O’Reilly then by implication that is selling Grimmett short. Also Richardson’s captaincy. Richardson was an enemy of Bradman and wouldn’t want to let him score at the expense of his own reputation. Also Richardson bowled Grimmett at Bradman in Richardson’s own testimonial and at his own personal cost so I can’t see why he’d do a favour for others but not himself.

There is also the matter of the crowds. They’d have especially wanted to see an O’Reilly Grimmett v Bradman confrontation and would’ve got rowdy if that was suspiciously delayed. As far as crowds go most administrators wanted Bradman in at lunch time to secure the maximum numbers. That was achieved with Bradman not out for about 3. I believe that was the reason Bradman batted at six instead of his customary three. I believe the crowd was manipulated for financial gain in that way and to set the stage for an O’Reilly Grimmett v Bradman battle, not to avoid it.

 

[a massive zebra]

90 runs per dismissal, so ~ 1170 runs. 1170/6 = 195 runs per O'Reilly dismissal.

If he made ~20% of his runs of O'Reilly (very big guess) that's an average of ~40 which is extremely low for Bradman's standards.

Obviously this could have varied greatly because we have no idea how many runs he scored directly against O'Reilly, it could be more or less than 20%, but it's almost certainly an average of <50, unless O'Reilly bowled a huge proportion of the overs and hence was scored off a lot more than expected. (Could probably guess more accurately by looking at the scorecards but cbf)

Your post and what I am about to write is merely speculation, but... I suspect as the star bowler in his team and a spinner of undoubted stamina, O'Reilly bowled much more than 20% of the overs (possibly as high as 35%), but was also able to control Bradman's scoring to a greater extent than his colleagues and achieve a greater economy rate. My guess (which may well be completely wrong) would be that Bradman scored 25-30% of his runs against O'Reilly, which would put Bradman's average against O'Reilly in the 50s.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I disagree the average was almost certainly under 50 because I think you are way underestimating the proportion of overs O'Reilly bowled. Could be wrong of course.