*Official* India Tour of England 2018

[MW1304]

Nah we're as bad as we look.

Best Indian pace bowling attack I've ever seen though, for sure.

Speaking of, has SS stopped his Indian fast bowling wheel yet?

Gives me hope our openers' wheel might actually end at some point.

 

[Starfighter]

Well knock me over! Root getting out the same way he did in Australia. I must say that 25 byes is a rather hefty contribution in such a small total.

 

[the big bambino]

25 byes is a lot. Maybe England's most productive stroke would be to leave every ball off wicket and let Pant do the scoring.

 

[Cruxdude]

Since 2014, Ishant averages 28.61 overall and 25.46 with Australia removed. Don't know who the reason is for the change, but that person deserves a lot of kudos.

 

[Daemon]

Since 2014, Ishant averages 28.61 overall and 25.46 with Australia removed. Don't know who the reason is for the change, but that person deserves a lot of kudos.

Coincides with demise of his ODI/IPL career so that could be a potential factor. He's also put on some mass finally, not sure if that helps.

 

[Arachnodouche]

And he's only just turned 30 too. Might still become the highest wicket taking fast man for India. Won't begrudge him that feat one bit if he stays the course.

 

[Shri]

 

[TheJediBrah]

Good bowling India. I heard on commentary that Rashid had ten first class hundreds (and a decent number of fifties). He has underperformed in tests with the bat. He bats like a tail-ender in tests, yet appears capable in county cricket on paper.

It's very easy to over-value county cricket performances. It really isn't a particularly high standard of First-class cricket compared to some competitions (though there are others that are just as bad, possibly even worse)

 

[OverratedSanity]

Some very bowling friendly decks but that's still so impressive. India's best pace attack ever by miles. I'll gladly take a poor batting lineup if it means we get this kind of bowling for another 5 years or so. So weird for this to happen to an Indian cricket team.

 

[Starfighter]

It's very easy to over-value county cricket performances. It really isn't a particularly high standard of First-class cricket compared to some competitions (though there are others that are just as bad, possibly even worse)

Which competitions are higher standard? Maybe the Shield, but not by that far, and just possibly SA franchise cricket, but that's all. Div 1 CC is as strong as any FC competition there is currently.

 

[vcs]

I expected them to lose potency as the series progressed, gradually relying more on spin to get the breakthroughs. It's been the other way around.

I don't know how they'll go in Australia and back on slower Indian pitches, but so far it's very encouraging.

 

[harsh.ag]

Thought India was going to enter another batting golden age with Kohli, Pujara, Rahan and instead a pace battery comes along. Decent trade-off to say the least. Esp with Pujara at least not looking dusted yet.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Which competitions are higher standard? Maybe the Shield, but not by that far, and just possibly SA franchise cricket, but that's all. Div 1 CC is as strong as any FC competition there is currently.

not sure if srs

 

[Starfighter]

not sure if srs

County cricket can produce a mid-thirties average opening batsman who averages 20 in tests. Shield cricket can produce a mid-thirties middle-order batsman who averages 7 in tests.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Some very bowling friendly decks but that's still so impressive. India's best pace attack ever by miles. I'll gladly take a poor batting lineup if it means we get this kind of bowling for another 5 years or so. So weird for this to happen to an Indian cricket team.

With this sort of bowling, the batsmen need to find a way of regularly getting to 275-300 at the very least. It's not impossible, but all potential contributors with the bat have to be selected with a premium on technique and durability at the crease.

 

[Borges]

Since 2014, Ishant averages 28.61 overall and 25.46 with Australia removed. Don't know who the reason is for the change, but that person deserves a lot of kudos.

One important reason for the change is that now there are other bowlers who are also bowling well, putting pressure on the batsmen.
Bowlers become more potent when they hunt in packs.
For instance, the numbers of Hadlee would have been even better than it was if he had other top notch bowlers bowling along side him.

 

[Agricultural]

Which competitions are higher standard? Maybe the Shield, but not by that far, and just possibly SA franchise cricket, but that's all. Div 1 CC is as strong as any FC competition there is currently.

Agreed. I believe the big name overseas players rate Division One County Championship stuff as the top level in First Class Cricket. I believe County Cricket Division One is stronger that anything out there in first class cricket.

It's very easy to over-value county cricket performances. It really isn't a particularly high standard of First-class cricket compared to some competitions (though there are others that are just as bad, possibly even worse)

County Championship Division One is a good standard. The Division Two stuff isn't great. He may be struggling mentally with no batting below him. I believe he would bat better at eight, but can't bat higher than nine if picked (as England have strong batting to eight). Ironically he and Keaton Jennings have almost identical batting averages in County Cricket. Both bat like number nines in Tests.

 

[Borges]

I think Ishant Sharma's brief stint in county cricket (division two) has made him a better bowler than what he was earlier.

 

[TheJediBrah]

County cricket can produce a mid-thirties average opening batsman who averages 20 in tests. Shield cricket can produce a mid-thirties middle-order batsman who averages 7 in tests.

huh? there's no truth to this whatsoever. I don't know if you're basing this of one player but if anything the opposite tends to be the trend when comparing averages for Shield/county and Tests. Jennings averages mid 40s in County cricket this year (and that's Division 1). County cricket is not close to Shield cricket in quality.

Agreed. I believe the big name overseas players rate Division One County Championship stuff as the top level in First Class Cricket. I believe County Cricket Division One is stronger that anything out there in first class cricket.

You believe wrong. It's relatively strong for what it is, thanks to all the overseas players/kolpak etc. but by it's very nature it's never going to be as strong as the Shield when one features only the best 6 teams worth of players in the country and one splits into the best 18. You'd need to fill 5-6 players in each county team with overseas professionals (good ones) for it to match in quality.

 

[TheJediBrah]

County cricket can produce a mid-thirties average opening batsman who averages 20 in tests. Shield cricket can produce a mid-thirties middle-order batsman who averages 7 in tests.

Want to compare stats for players who played any decent amount in the most recent iterations of both?

Siddle: County: 37 wkts at 16, Shield: 24 wkts at 40
Mennie: County: 28 wkts at 21, Shield: 30 wkts at 34
Worrall: County: 16 wkts at 21, Shield: 34 wkts at 29
Renshaw: County: 513 runs at 51, Shield: 804 runs at 44

And this doesn't even take into account that you'd expect playing overseas in unfriendly conditions to affect someone's figures. Even if the competitions were the same strength you'd expect them to perform better in the Shield than in England. There are also players that are barely even close to selection in Australia that were regulars in County cricket, eg. Rimmington and SIdebottom

Supporting your point though you have Hilton Cartwright who failed completely in County (Div 2 as well), but how much to strike that down to a guy who's hardly played outside Australia I don't know.

County cricket (Div 1 at least) may be stronger then a lot of First-class competitions, but it's not going to challenge the Shield any time soon.