England players and selection discussion thread

[SeamUp]

Yeah all the best Cooky.

https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/844143

 

[SeamUp]

Blast from the past : Joe Denly

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket...sri-lanka-tour/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

 

[SeamUp]

Classic ECB

On weighted average - a metric England use to contextualise runs based on the circumstances in which they were made - Denly has been one of the leading England batsmen in county cricket in recent years.

 

[Groundking]

The ECB is so braindead, but I actually wouldn't mind trying Burns and Denly up the top of the order, 2 lads with no previous bagage, left hand right hand combo, and Denly is a bit of an older head, which has worked well for the Aussies before so worth a try imo.

 

[Starfighter]

Is there any proof using cacky measures actually works? If England have been picking players on 'contextualised average' it seems to suggest not.

 

[Moonsorrow999]

Mitchell/Burns for me. If not Mitchell, Burns with one of the young guys like Gubbins. I think Root is fine at 3 as long as there is stability behind him. Hope we do not see Vince back.

 

[Prince EWS]

Is there any proof using cacky measures actually works? If England have been picking players on 'contextualised average' it seems to suggest not.

I'm not sure if they copied my idea or it's just all a ruse to justify weird selections by making up imaginary statistics that support them.

 

[Starfighter]

Reminds me how that CricViz mob just released an article claiming Vince is unlucky in the amount he nicks behind. If they'd actually watched him bat they'd see that he isn't.

 

[Gremlin]

This will make an interesting selection meeting for the SL tour. Jennings, a new opener and potentially Moeen at three would make up England's top order.

 

[SeamUp]

Now some thoughts from The Guardian

In that last paragraph who are they saying Burns is behind in pecking order ? Denly ? It seems right after talking about Foakes which is weird.

Joe Denly could be the chief beneficiary of Cook’s retirement with a spot on the winter tour to Sri Lanka, while Moeen Ali is expected to be handed the chance to stake his claim for the much-debated No 3 position at the Oval this week.

Denly, the 32-year-old Kent right-hander who made the last of 14 limited-overs appearances for England eight years ago, is known to be among the frontrunners to open this winter although is unlikely to be included when the squad for Friday’s dead-rubber fifth Test with India is named on Tuesday.

England are instead leaning towards giving Keaton Jennings another opportunity following an encouraging second-innings 36 during the 60-run win in Southampton, and, in a continuation of a mid-Test switch, Moeen should remain at first drop, allowing the captain, Joe Root, to bat his preferred No 4 position permanently.

Trevor Bayliss has always advocated Root coming in a spot higher but, after seeing him average 29 there this summer, now accepts it has not worked. The coach said: “I thought it was for the best of the team he batted at No 3. Hopefully we can find someone who can do a decent job there and he can bat where he feels most comfortable. All credit to him. He has taken that role on with no problems. He has taken one for the team in that respect.”

Moeen is desperate for another chance in the spot he bats for his county, Worcestershire, and could well see this extend into the winter against Sri Lanka and West Indies owing to the reduced threat of the new ball and his ability against the turning ball. Bayliss said: “In the right conditions I would not put [batting at No 3] past him. He works hard at his game.”

While 3-1 up in the series, England are unlikely to make too many changes for the fifth Test. Much will depend on the ability of Ben Stokes to bowl – the all-rounder is struggling with a knee injury but has been told surgery is not required – and so this and the Oval pitch could dictate whether Chris Woakes returns in place of Adil Rashid, a move that would see Moeen as the solitary spinner.

Jos Buttler is likely to continue behind the stumps, meaning Jonny Bairstow remains as a specialist batsman. But the pair will also face a challenge for the overseas trips from Surrey’s Ben Foakes, who is considered the superior gloveman.

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Rory Burns, the Surrey captain who is the leading scorer in Division One this year, is considered behind him in the pecking order and much will depend on how Jennings fares in his final chance to impress.

 

[BoyBrumby]

"An encouraging second-innings 36"?! Man we're setting a low bar for our openers now, aren't we?!

Conveniently ignoring the first test blob where Keaton declined to offer a shot to a ball hitting two thirds of the way up middle stump.

I'm starting feel bad that I keep having a go at him as he seems like a nice lad, but really how much more largesse is he going to get? An average of 22 and a half from 10+ tests is surely not cutting it?

 

[Groundking]

"An encouraging second-innings 36"?! Man we're setting a low bar for our openers now, aren't we?!

Conveniently ignoring the first test blob where Keaton declined to offer a shot to a ball hitting two thirds of the way up middle stump.

I'm starting feel bad that I keep having a go at him as he seems like a nice lad, but really how much more largesse is he going to get? An average of 22 and a half from 10+ tests is surely not cutting it?

Yeah the guy needs binning off/ This is the second time now he's looks completely at sea. The guy's not had a 50 in 16 innings, and is averaging 17.87 at home ffs.

 

[CricAddict]

Doesn't Moeen at 3 solve a lot of England's problems? With the talent he has, he can come good frequently. Even if he doesn't, he has a strong second string to his bow.

And this also allows everyone else to bat at their preferred positions.

 

[marc71178]

Doesn't Moeen at 3 solve a lot of England's problems? With the talent he has, he can come good frequently. Even if he doesn't, he has a strong second string to his bow.

And this also allows everyone else to bat at their preferred positions.

I'm not sure it's a long term option, would rather find somebody else and bring them in at 3 for Rashid, who quite frankly has added **** all to the team. Root 4 then a middle order of (in some order) Stokes, Bairstow, Buttler, Moeen, Woakes/Curran and the 2 veterans at 10 and 11.

 

[CricAddict]

I'm not sure it's a long term option, would rather find somebody else and bring them in at 3 for Rashid, who quite frankly has added **** all to the team. Root 4 then a middle order of (in some order) Stokes, Bairstow, Buttler, Moeen, Woakes/Curran and the 2 veterans at 10 and 11.

In that case, while the order changes, you make just one change to my XI. You bring a batsman instead of either Curran or Woakes from my team. Is there a batsman right now who can add more value to the team than Curran or Woakes?

 

[Groundking]

In that case, while the order changes, you make just one change to my XI. You bring a batsman instead of either Curran or Woakes from my team. Is there a batsman right now who can add more value to the team than Curran or Woakes?

Probably not.

I think Moeen is to loose to bat at 3 long term, but it does solve the issue of who to drop out of Stokes/Woakes/Curran, as we can just play them all. So we'd have a line up something like this:

Burns
Denly
Moeen
Root (c)
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler (wk)
Woakes
Curran
Broad
Anderson

The top order is a bit of a mess, but the nice thing about it is it does feel like a fresh start up there, but from Root down it looks pretty good.

 

[Flem274*]

you need a real batsman at #3 in test matches (hence Kohli never bats there and Kyle Mills did) but moeen as a pinch hitting opener could be quite fun. i'm not sure it will work but i'd watch it.

 

[Groundking]

you need a real batsman at #3 in test matches (hence Kohli never bats there and Kyle Mills did) but moeen as a pinch hitting opener could be quite fun. i'm not sure it will work but i'd watch it.

He bats at 3 for his county though, so there's the possibility that it might work. We've tried opening with him in the UAE, it didn't go well.

 

[Flem274*]

jesse ryder opened the bowling for a county and it worked. domestic cricket is strange and the only rule is the most unrealistic idea will be the one that works

sad that moeen opening didn't work. use broad as a sacrifice then

 

[theegyptian]

Succession planning for Anderson in particular and Broad needs to happen.

I imagine the pecking order for their type.

1. Woakes
2. Porter
3. C.Overton
4. Ball
5. Fisher
6. Coad
7. Helm
8. McKerr (waiting for qualification period still from SA and you could move him down below )

J.Overton, Saq Mahmood (injured basically all season), Olly Stone & Henry Brookes (who have both had their injury issues too) quick through the air unpredictable type if they move past Mark Wood. Gleeson and Chappell also in this category.

Interesting couple of young quicks from the last u19 CWC who has done well in their early County chances are Dillon Pennington (Worcs) and Ethan Bamber (Middlesex). Pennington looked raw and exciting then.

It's been a pretty awful season for the fast bowlers. Barely anyone has enhanced their claims. Certainly most of the young bowlers (garton, mahmood, fisher, helm, coughlin, stone, topley) have done little to nothing.

Archer if he is available next year is a sure thing.

Otherwise from what I've seen

Fisher, Tongue and Brookes look the most likely to be truly test class and not just at home.

Then you have a list of english type seamers/swingers that might be angling for one spot when England play at home (unless they make massive strides) - Coad, Porter, COverton etc