*Official* English Football Season 2015-16

[Furball]

It probably matters less than it did, just because of the huge amount of money in the Premier League.

They're competing with 6, potentially 7 clubs around them who will be able to offer the carrot of European football. You want to convince a player to join Liverpool, you show him footage of the Dortmund home game...which he won't be experiencing this season.

Chelsea have a very similar problem, except they're a much smaller club than Liverpool, have a rubbish squad and a manager who will be otherwise occupied until mid July which is why I'll be amazed if they're anywhere near top 4 next season.

 

[grecian]

This League 3 proposal is interesting, not sure if in favour. Could be our passage back in if we **** up the next few years mind

On the face of it, it looks ghastly, 4 less home games, and yet more teams are meant to be going pro, when it's a struggle as it is. Honestly can only think it's a back-door way for them to do the Prem u-21 thing when it turns into a disaster.

They've said that there's a pre-condition that clubs won't be worse off, but don't tell us how. Scudamore's involved, my cynical guess is the Premier will give a fair wedge (but not really for them) over to make them look benevolent, whilst actually just doing it because the proposals just have two promotion places to the Prem,and possibly none in one year, making it more of a closed shop.

In the end, teams won't just lose in the less games, but the more dilution of the League means that 5th divisions are likely to be filled with teams with about 12 away supporters.

 

[Uppercut]

They're competing with 6, potentially 7 clubs around them who will be able to offer the carrot of European football. You want to convince a player to join Liverpool, you show him footage of the Dortmund home game...which he won't be experiencing this season.

Chelsea have a very similar problem, except they're a much smaller club than Liverpool, have a rubbish squad and a manager who will be otherwise occupied until mid July which is why I'll be amazed if they're anywhere near top 4 next season.

Liverpool are a pretty attractive prospect with Klopp in charge. Tend to think CL football won't be such a big draw now that it's no longer obvious who will qualify every year. Used to be a very clear divide between CL and non-CL clubs.

 

[Furball]

It's only an increase to the Football League numbers by 8 clubs though.

46 games in a season is ****ing insane.

 

[GIMH]

On the face of it, it looks ghastly, 4 less home games, and yet more teams are meant to be going pro, when it's a struggle as it is. Honestly can only think it's a back-door way for them to do the Prem u-21 thing when it turns into a disaster.

They've said that there's a pre-condition that clubs won't be worse off, but don't tell us how. Scudamore's involved, my cynical guess is the Premier will give a fair wedge (but not really for them) over to make them look benevolent, whilst actually just doing it because the proposals just have two promotion places to the Prem,and possibly none in one year, making it more of a closed shop.

In the end, teams won't just lose in the less games, but the more dilution of the League means that 5th divisions are likely to be filled with teams with about 12 away supporters.

Makes the championship pipe dream even harder too (I don't even bother dreaming of the prem but another spell in the championship would be ace)

JPT games on international weekends though right

But all this being said. If we stay down next season then I'll be starting to worry about being down here for the long run. Less so if eight sides are going to go up one season. Hugely selfish but there you go

Completely see your point about the 12 away fans, we don't need to dwell on that, it's ghastly. But then, perhaps a football league place as a professional outfit would get people through the gates at these clubs? Whereas this season all the numpty teams saw Tranmere as a glamour game (weirdos) in League 3 they'd have the potential of a chunk of such games in any given season which could help?

I dunno. Really I'd want to see the small print. If there's any loophole that could kill the pyramid off via Stoke reserves in the future then I'd be against. And if they ever do bring in B Teams I'd be hoping for a serious level of activism amongst supporters across the land, but maybe I'm being too idealistic.

 

[GIMH]

It's only an increase to the Football League numbers by 8 clubs though.

46 games in a season is ****ing insane.

Eh, is it though?

A Prem side in the group stages of the CL will play 38+6, may have had to qualify for said group stages. And then a minimum of two between League Cup and FA Cup

The JPT gets the same treatment from small clubs that the proper cups do from the big boys, and we're (okay I don't support a football league club bla bla) likely to be out the big cups after a round or two.

Sure, they will play more games than the average Prem club but you have to have a pretty special cup season to play 60 games, I mean we did in 99-00 but it took us to get to a cup final and the FA Cup quarters, pretty rare even these days for a league club.

Midweek games are a pain in the arse but I would miss them if they went, strangely.

 

[Pothas]

They're competing with 6, potentially 7 clubs around them who will be able to offer the carrot of European football. You want to convince a player to join Liverpool, you show him footage of the Dortmund home game...which he won't be experiencing this season.

Chelsea have a very similar problem, except they're a much smaller club than Liverpool, have a rubbish squad and a manager who will be otherwise occupied until mid July which is why I'll be amazed if they're anywhere near top 4 next season.

Well on Chelsea I really hope you are right but I am pretty sure if they are willing to spend big then they will be able attract players, massive wages count for a lot. The absolute elite players basically go Real Madrid, Barcelona, and maybe Bayern. Blow that a club like Chelsea can still easily compete with or without the Champions league.

 

[grecian]

Eh, is it though?

A Prem side in the group stages of the CL will play 38+6, may have had to qualify for said group stages. And then a minimum of two between League Cup and FA Cup

The JPT gets the same treatment from small clubs that the proper cups do from the big boys, and we're (okay I don't support a football league club bla bla) likely to be out the big cups after a round or two.

Sure, they will play more games than the average Prem club but you have to have a pretty special cup season to play 60 games, I mean we did in 99-00 but it took us to get to a cup final and the FA Cup quarters, pretty rare even these days for a league club.

Midweek games are a pain in the arse but I would miss them if they went, strangely.

Well, the devil, as with most things will be in the detail. I guess we'll see, and agree with you about midweeks, but unfortunately not enough people go to them, everyones too damn responsible nowadays, "it's a school night tee-hee", **** off you wanker, never happened in my day, *grumbles about modern-life and everything new-fangled*.

 

[GIMH]

Well, the devil, as with most things will be in the detail. I guess we'll see, and agree with you about midweeks, but unfortunately not enough people go to them, everyones too damn responsible nowadays, "it's a school night tee-hee", **** off you wanker, never happened in my day, *grumbles about modern-life and everything new-fangled*.

One thing the conference gets right. Midweek games galore in August to early October before the really **** weather arrives.

 

[Pothas]

I don't hate the 20 team League idea, I think there are easily 8 big enough National League clubs to make it work. Obviously from a selfish point of view it makes staying in the Championship harder but I also think it would make it a better league.

 

[GIMH]

I don't hate the 20 team League idea, I think there are easily 8 big enough National League clubs to make it work. Obviously from a selfish point of view it makes staying in the Championship harder but I also think it would make it a better league.

Well, if the top eight had gone up this season it would have been

Cheltenham (P)
Forest Green
Braintree
Grimsby (P)
Dover
Tranmere
Eastleigh
Goats

Depends what you define as big enough but Forest Green, Braintree, Eastleigh and Dover probably don't meet it. However you've also got Lincoln, Macclesfield, Chester, Torquay with reasonable crowds and/or plenty of FL pedigree in recent memory (granted Jester are a Phoenix club but for me they're the same club, just somehow even shitter than the old lot were). I'd have included Kidderminster and Halifax (see Chester) but they've just got down, you've also got the likes of Stockport and Hereford lingering down below, FC United threatening to make their way up the pyramid and the Salford lot too. Not to mention York and Dagenham coming down.

 

[Pothas]

Yeah I was really thinking of the number of former Football League clubs down there, I think it would be viable.

 

[Pothas]

Obviously if it is a preparation for B teams coming in then I am absolutely against it.

 

[Furball]

Would either of you oppose B teams entering at the same level of the pyramid that AFC Wimbledon and FC United went in at?

 

[Pothas]

Yeah I would. It would also be of no use for a Arsenal B team player to play at that level. Just loan them out to a progressive club in West London, or even better stop stockpiling players.

 

[GIMH]

Would either of you oppose B teams entering at the same level of the pyramid that AFC Wimbledon and FC United went in at?

B teams should play other B teams

No club should have two teams in the pyramid. Where they start isn't the issue

You don't need B teams if you stop the big clubs stockpiling hundreds of young players

 

[Furball]

It's not necessarily down to big clubs stockpiling hundreds of players though. You take a top young player at Barcelona or Bayern Munich and they'll generally spend their latter teenage years playing competitive games for the B team against other clubs. They'll get up to 50 or 60 first team games at a lower level whilst still fully reaping the benefits of the facilities, coaches etc at their clubs. Top youngsters at Arsenal or Chelsea will generally be playing meaningless U18 or reserve fixtures.

 

[Pothas]

The strength of our lower league is the best thing about English football though, I don't even care if it helps the big clubs, or even the national team, it would ruin the whole system.

 

[grecian]

In the end all these are side-issues, the fact is that so far there is nothing in the proposals that say anything about adequately recompensing for the lost matches, and of course less teams will have the higher TV championship money, and so on. This just makes no financial sense, and unless there is some serious guaranteed money from somewhere, I have no idea how they even expect it to pass.

In fact I fail to see a financial plus for almost anyone in the football league, particularly ones with the aspirations to be Prem teams.

Less games maybe the right thing to do, I'm not that bothered myself, the lazy ****ers have all got 3 months off now, it's not like International football plays much of a part down the pyramid.

Oh and even though I wasn't asked, I agree with Pothas and Gimp over B sides, as does the vast majority of lower-league fans.

 

[GIMH]

The strength of our lower league is the best thing about English football though, I don't even care if it helps the big clubs, or even the national team, it would ruin the whole system.

Yeah I mean it helping the big clubs is the very bottom of my list. Why would I want to sacrifice my own club for that? And as for the national team, well I do care but not at the cost of the pyramid and the fact that I'm watching a real competition not a training exercise for the England team. And it's not as though the young talent in Arsenal and Chelsea B would all be England qualified anyway, let's get real.

I mean imagine being in League One and playing Chelsea B, would be about as soulless as hosting Boreham ****ing Wood wouldn't it?

All this aside, Grecian is bang on the money. An expanded football league is fine but the reduced income isn't. JPT games at the weekend would be about as harrowing as playing in the FA ****ing Trophy, I mean how do I justify spending my Saturday doing that to the moaning wife

I'd have no problem with them going about it a different way. Regionalisation of the bottom two tiers would solve the midweek issue and bump up attendances. Have five go down from the championship, top two up from L1/2 north/south and then a play off series that goes something like

North 3 v South 6
South 3 v North 6
North 4 v South 5
South 4 v North 5

All over one leg, higher places teams at home. Winners of 1 v 3 and 2 v 4, again higher places team at home and then final at Wembley

I mean it's a rubbish idea really and the championship clubs would never agree to five down but a regional solution would make far more sense if the reasons they gave were what they actually wanted

What this all does tell me is it's imperative the whites get back up this season so we get to vote on this