What is your ALL TIME WORLD XI TEAM for tests?

[subshakerz]

This is simply not true. The batsman dismissed most often by Sobers were Ken Barrington and Geoff Boycott (both 7 times). Also near the top of his list were John Edrich (6 times), Cowdrey (5 times) and Dexter (5 times). His favourite Australian was Bob Simpson (4 times).

HowSTAT! Player Bowling Analysis

All of the above batsman had emaculate defences and are ATGs or very close to it.

A fifth bowling options will be a supportive role to round off the attack and shouldnt be expected to carry the same burden as the main four all-timers.

I think a fifth bowling option will be mostly employed to give some breathing space for the main four bowlers in between spells without releasing too much pressure on the batsmen, or to try and get a wicket if a partnership develops. Sobers will give the captain the variety of a left arm seamer to break the right arm trend if the pitch is flat, or finger/wrist spin if its a turning wicket. That's why he is an easy fit.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

A fifth bowling options will be a supportive role to round off the attack and shouldnt be expected to carry the same burden as the main four all-timers.

I think a fifth bowling option will be mostly employed to give some breathing space for the main four bowlers in between spells without releasing too much pressure on the batsmen, or to try and get a wicket if a partnership develops. Sobers will give the captain the variety of a left arm seamer to break the right arm trend if the pitch is flat, or finger/wrist spin if its a turning wicket. That's why he is an easy fit.

You're hugely underplaying the role of a fifth bowler here. Fifth bowlers give their captains a huge amount of versatility. A fourth seamer means that if conditions suit, a team can have their quicks bowling for nigh on 40 overs without reverting out of necessity to a spin option. Similarly, a second spinner gives a team greater options if the pitch starts to turn.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Let's also not forget that phase on CW when people regaled us with tales of how Sobers would bowl spin on pace friendly wickets and pace on spin friendly wickets. Was supposed to be a massive selling point

 

[OverratedSanity]

Let's also not forget that phase on CW when people regaled us with tales of how Sobers would bowl spin on pace friendly wickets and pace on spin friendly wickets.

Lolwut? If that's true Sobers was in no way the best all rounder ever on account of being a dumb****

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Irrespective of any misguided attempts to rubbish Sir Garfield's bowling or any arguments about the need for a 5th bowler, he gets in any sane all time XI as a batsman anyway. I don't think even Ricky Ponting's own granny would put him in instead.

 

[Jassy]

Don't like this prime argument. We're picking on overall career record, surely? Otherwise might as well pick Mohammad Yousuf.

As regards Ponting vs Sobers, look it is close but for me Ponting was the better bat. It's not as though there is no debate. Miller was every bit the player Imran was too...

 

[watson]

Don't like this prime argument. We're picking on overall career record, surely? Otherwise might as well pick Mohammad Yousuf.

As regards Ponting vs Sobers, look it is close but for me Ponting was the better bat. It's not as though there is no debate. Miller was every bit the player Imran was too...

Ponting averaged 26.48 in India after 14 Tests, and remained a relative failure in each of his 3 tours.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Ponting averaged 26.48 in India after 14 Tests, and remained a relative failure in each of his 3 tours.

Technically, not true. He failed in his first 3 tours but improved a great deal in 2008 and 2010, which ironically came when he was in decline as a batsman.
Edit : just noticed you Saud after 14 Tests. Excuse my stupidity

Sobers definitely the better batsman than Ponting imo, but the gap can't be too huge surely.

 

[kyear2]

I will say, and knowing that no one here will agree, purely as a batsman, Sobers is closer to Bradman than to Ponting. Sobers entered the Test arena as a 17 yr old finger spinner who over 4 years developed in the batsman he eventually became.

All that is besides the point, as I personally in my XI's always choose a specialist batting and bowling allrounder and a specialist (2nd) slip. For me Sobers would easily make the team as a batsman, bating all rounder or slip specialist.

 

[smash84]

I will say, and knowing that no one here will agree, purely as a batsman, Sobers is closer to Bradman than to Ponting. Sobers entered the Test arena as a 17 yr old finger spinner who over 4 years developed in the batsman he eventually became.

.

That is a big call. Is there any justification for such a statement?

 

[kyear2]

It's my opinion. Don't expect anyone to agree with me.

 

[Jassy]

Re. the thing about batsmen dismissed by Sobers, seriously that is a moot point. You could bring up an impressive list for just about anyone. Take Ishant Sharma; batsmen dismissed most by him - Clarke, Ponting, Cook, Watson, Bell! Honestly, Sobers is an adequate 5th bowler against most sides but I really wouldn't back him as a bowler against ATG sides - my team say (Hutton, Gavaskar, Bradman, Tendulkar, Viv Richards, Ponting, Gilchrist). If you think he is good enough to make an impact against such blokes with the ball, fair play to you; we will agree to disagree. I find Sobers' bowling kind of overrated and I have come across the pace on spin friendly wickets and vice-versa arguments elsewhere. Suffice to say if we need such arguments to prop up something, then that something is probably not all that.

Don't get me wrong. Sobers is one of the greatest batsman and greatest players of all time. That is not in question. His bowling however does get overrated. Some of the Sobers fans are like the Tendulkar fans TBH. Isn't it enough that someone was one of the very best without having to exaggerate how good they were at something? He strikes every 91 balls and has a bowling average of 34; we can spin it however we want, that is not all that. Against most sides in test history, sure he would be a serviceable 5th bowler. Against an ATG line-up? I dunno.

Not sure what Ponting's record in India has to do with anything. Don't want to get into any statistical arguments here but since it came up - if we're holding Ponting's record in India against him, Sobers averages 23.76 overall over 12 tests vs New Zealand and 15.10 over 7 tests in New Zealand. Ponting has a century in India, Sobers has none in NZ. Ponting has a brilliant record vs India overall, Sobers' overall record vs NZ is also not flash; in fact it is worse than Ponting's in India. Not going to get into any stats fights now 1)because it is useless and they are both so close and 2)no doubt we'll have something along the lines of how he batted right handed in New Zealand or something.

Sobers closer to Bradman as a batsman than Ponting? Ok.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Actually agree with kyear (for once). I know this is isnt what he meant, for mine Sobers is a definite top 5 of all time batsmen is while ponting just scrapes into the top 20.

 

[Coronis]

That is a big call. Is there any justification for such a statement?

Not really that big of a call..

Sobers: 8032 runs @ 57.78, 26 centuries in 93 matches
Ponting: 13378 runs @ 51.85, 41 centuries in 168 matches

Sobers makes my top 3 batsmen of all time, Ponting would be in the top 15 at best.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Re. the thing about batsmen dismissed by Sobers, seriously that is a moot point. You could bring up an impressive list for just about anyone. Take Ishant Sharma; batsmen dismissed most by him - Clarke, Ponting, Cook, Watson, Bell! Honestly, Sobers is an adequate 5th bowler against most sides but I really wouldn't back him as a bowler against ATG sides - my team say (Hutton, Gavaskar, Bradman, Tendulkar, Viv Richards, Ponting, Gilchrist). If you think he is good enough to make an impact against such blokes with the ball, fair play to you; we will agree to disagree. I find Sobers' bowling kind of overrated and I have come across the pace on spin friendly wickets and vice-versa arguments elsewhere. Suffice to say if we need such arguments to prop up something, then that something is probably not all that.

Don't get me wrong. Sobers is one of the greatest batsman and greatest players of all time. That is not in question. His bowling however does get overrated. Some of the Sobers fans are like the Tendulkar fans TBH. Isn't it enough that someone was one of the very best without having to exaggerate how good they were at something? He strikes every 91 balls and has a bowling average of 34; we can spin it however we want, that is not all that. Against most sides in test history, sure he would be a serviceable 5th bowler. Against an ATG line-up? I dunno.

Not sure what Ponting's record in India has to do with anything. Don't want to get into any statistical arguments here but since it came up - if we're holding Ponting's record in India against him, Sobers averages 23.76 overall over 12 tests vs New Zealand and 15.10 over 7 tests in New Zealand. Ponting has a century in India, Sobers has none in NZ. Ponting has a brilliant record vs India overall, Sobers' overall record vs NZ is also not flash; in fact it is worse than Ponting's in India. Not going to get into any stats fights now 1)because it is useless and they are both so close and 2)no doubt we'll have something along the lines of how he batted right handed in New Zealand or something.

Sobers closer to Bradman as a batsman than Ponting? Ok.

So what you've effectively said is that a rank aweful bowler (sharma) has dismissed some bloody good batsmen. Therefore sharma has a chance of dismissing said batsmen in an atg match. Therefore sobers who is a much better bowler must be in with a much greater chance of taking wickets. Logic, its great isn't it?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Not really that big of a call..

Sobers: 8032 runs @ 57.78, 26 centuries in 93 matches
Ponting: 13378 runs @ 51.85, 41 centuries in 168 matches

Sobers makes my top 3 batsmen of all time, Ponting would be in the top 15 at best.

That's all fine and dandy but how does that proves Sobers was closer to Bradman than to Ponting. It's a ridiculous statement.

To put it into context, if a biased Indian fan had come on here and said Sachin was closer to Bradman than to Lara/Ponting, he'd have been massacred. Borderline trollish, because he didn't even give his reasons for why he thought so. Just "I don't expect anyone will agree" which isn't good enough

 

[Jassy]

So what you've effectively said is that a rank aweful bowler (sharma) has dismissed some bloody good batsmen. Therefore sharma has a chance of dismissing said batsmen in an atg match. Therefore sobers who is a much better bowler must be in with a much greater chance of taking wickets. Logic, its great isn't it?

What?! Totally missed the point.

I said a lot of bowlers have impressive batsmen on their ''most dismissed' lists so that means jack diddly squat in the grand scheme of things.

Much better than Sharma doesn't mean he'd be effective in an ATG side. Logic is great, sure

 

[Debris]

That's all fine and dandy but how does that proves Sobers was closer to Bradman than to Ponting. It's a ridiculous statement.

To put it into context, if a biased Indian fan had come on here and said Sachin was closer to Bradman than to Lara/Ponting, he'd have been massacred. Borderline trollish, because he didn't even give his reasons for why he thought so. Just "I don't expect anyone will agree" which isn't good enough

Particulary when you consider that Ponting's average after 93 games was 55.37

 

[Jassy]

Not really that big of a call..

Sobers: 8032 runs @ 57.78, 26 centuries in 93 matches
Ponting: 13378 runs @ 51.85, 41 centuries in 168 matches

Sobers makes my top 3 batsmen of all time, Ponting would be in the top 15 at best.

Sobers : 160 innings, 8032 runs @ 57.78 with 26 centuries
Ponting : 160 innings, 7738 runs @ 56.07 with 25 centuries

In fact, after his 204th innings (122nd test) he averaged 58.05! Just because he had a decline in his later career it doesn't detract from his legacy, just like Viv's last few years don't affect his.

Refusing to credit longevity is alright as long as you don't penalize it.

 

[Jassy]

For the sake of the argument even if Sobers is say, 3rd best of all time and Ponting is 10th best, it doesn't mean Sobers is closer to Bradman as a batsman than he is to Ponting (unless you mean something silly like 3 is closer to 1 than it is to 10). After Bradman, there are a bunch of batsmen who are more or less equals - Tendulkar, Ponting, G.Chappell, Gavaskar, Lara, Viv Richards, Sobers, Border etc. You could put them in basically any order. Bradman was way ahead of the rest so the difference between him and say 10th best would be virtually the same as the difference between him and the 2nd best. I can't believe justifications are actually being made for it!