Will Chanderapul be considered an all time great?

[fredfertang]

If he retired at the end of this Test no, but seems if he's still doing what he does now in five years time, and there doesn't appear to be any indication yet that he won't, then the answer might be different

 

[OverratedSanity]

What does Chanderpaul need to do for you to rank him above some of those players, especially Kallicharan and Hunte? He's had an amazing career and its been one that was quite surprising as he didn't exactly scream 'amazing career' early doors.

The All-time great question is always hard to answer, as the number of cricketers who make the cut differs between people.

Yeah maybe not Kallicharan, his career was way too short. Hunte is pretty underrated.

Will admit to potentially underrating chanderpaul though... It just annoys me that he averages more than Viv and as much as Lara without being anywhere near as good. Who does he think he is having such a good career?
Hes definitely one of his generations greats

 

[Flem274*]

He played too much for him self instead of team and sometimes seemed detached from the team situation and requirements..

My God sentences like this must be among the most dribbling I have ever read on this forum.

In the current test match he came in at 4 down for less than 100 and scored 122* at a perfectly respectable strike rate of 53. In Dunedin he came in at 3/70 and while his team collapsed around him scored 76 (87). In both cases he rescued his side. What a selfish **** indeed. Who gives a **** if he looks detached? It's good to see a calm batsman at the crease in a crisis.

Admit it - you don't like him because he often scores slowly. That's fine, we all like different things. I like to watch aggressive batting as well. What isn't fine is slandering a batsman who has served his country to a standard not often achieved and tries his heart out to rescue the West Indies from abject embarrassment almost every time he bats because you and fans like you cannot bring yourselves to admit you don't like watching him bat and want to hide your asinine biases behind criticism of the players you don't like. Worse, the criticism you use to hide your bias always involves attacks on Chandepaul's character and role as a team player.

 

[karan316]

I think if he was playing in a better team which won more games people would have taken him a lot more seriously. He is quite underrated tbh. A lot of his exceptional innings haven't got much recognition simply because of the weak side he has played for which didn't win that much.

 

[Daemon]

The fact that he can't bat higher up the order is a bit annoying and what puts him a level below the others that have similar returns in Test cricket to him. Still a definite ATG though for me, whatever the requirements for that are, he certainly deserves the tag. People talk about balls to the walls knocks, this guy plays them every couple of games, just in a calmer fashion, and not as counter attacking. It's not his fault the rest of the team rarely steps up to help give his runs a chance of forcing a result.

 

[kyear2]

My God sentences like this must be among the most dribbling I have ever read on this forum.

In the current test match he came in at 4 down for less than 100 and scored 122* at a perfectly respectable strike rate of 53. In Dunedin he came in at 3/70 and while his team collapsed around him scored 76 (87). In both cases he rescued his side. What a selfish **** indeed. Who gives a **** if he looks detached? It's good to see a calm batsman at the crease in a crisis.

Admit it - you don't like him because he often scores slowly. That's fine, we all like different things. I like to watch aggressive batting as well. What isn't fine is slandering a batsman who has served his country to a standard not often achieved and tries his heart out to rescue the West Indies from abject embarrassment almost every time he bats because you and fans like you cannot bring yourselves to admit you don't like watching him bat and want to hide your asinine biases behind criticism of the players you don't like. Worse, the criticism you use to hide your bias always involves attacks on Chandepaul's character and role as a team player.

There was nothing wrong with the last innings he played. Unfortunately that wasn't the only innings he has ever played. I have personally sat in the stands and seen captains on more than one occasion ask him to increase the scoring rate to no avail even when we were in strong positions. He is capable of scoring quickly when he wants, but on many occasions even when the situation warrants he seems to be playing for his average over team. That's what I meant about being detached from the team situation or requirements. The fact too that he has been asked to bat higher in the order to assist and shore up a young inexperienced top order in the past and he has repeatedly refused speaks to it as well.
But kudos to you for the ability to read my mind to judge my motives for my comments. I have watched more of Chanderpaul than you have over the years and know why I hold certain beliefs about him. Doesn't not make him a great batsman and even though most dislike his technique, personally it doesn't remotely bother me.

 

[OverratedSanity]

My God sentences like this must be among the most dribbling I have ever read on this forum.

In the current test match he came in at 4 down for less than 100 and scored 122* at a perfectly respectable strike rate of 53. In Dunedin he came in at 3/70 and while his team collapsed around him scored 76 (87). In both cases he rescued his side. What a selfish **** indeed. Who gives a **** if he looks detached? It's good to see a calm batsman at the crease in a crisis.

Admit it - you don't like him because he often scores slowly. That's fine, we all like different things. I like to watch aggressive batting as well. What isn't fine is slandering a batsman who has served his country to a standard not often achieved and tries his heart out to rescue the West Indies from abject embarrassment almost every time he bats because you and fans like you cannot bring yourselves to admit you don't like watching him bat and want to hide your asinine biases behind criticism of the players you don't like. Worse, the criticism you use to hide your bias always involves attacks on Chandepaul's character and role as a team player.

Come on, let's not pretend that there have been no instances where chanderpaul 's batting has felt as if he was playing to pad up his stats first and not necessarily what was needed for the team. That's the feeling he's given me a few times in the past, might not be the case for you, I don't know.
He might not be selfish for all I know but there have been incidents where it's looked to me as though he wasn't giving the match situation it's due importance.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Does any bowler enjoy bowling to Chanderpaul? Great batsman though. There was a little stretch somewhere along the line where he scored about 1600 runs in 8 Tests against Eng, SA, and Aus.

 

[Spikey]

he's alright for a guy who lives in Florida

 

[Athlai]

Come on, let's not pretend that there have been no instances where chanderpaul 's batting has felt as if he was playing to pad up his stats first and not necessarily what was needed for the team. That's the feeling he's given me a few times in the past, might not be the case for you, I don't know.
He might not be selfish for all I know but there have been incidents where it's looked to me as though he wasn't giving the match situation it's due importance.

So you're saying that he looked selfish because he was valuing his wicket and looking to get a few runs?

Damning stuff.

I don't think Chanderpaul is by any means a selfish player, is he a player who is capable of switching gears completely? Not at all.

He can change gears but you can basically hear the shift from the sidelines, he has his game and he sticks to it and does so very successfully. Without Chandepaul can you imagine what the decline of the 2000s would have looked like for the West Indies? Just because a player doesn't slog when he is batting with a number 11 and looks to rotate the strike with the tail doesn't mean he is just there to bolster his own innings. He is out there trying to build one.

 

[andruid]

He is the all time time greatest antipurist batsman and and ATG because of it to me.

 

[morgieb]

Impossible to think Chanderpaul as being selfish IMO. It isn't his fault his side has long been very ordinary.

 

[sanga1337]

Easily an all time great, the guy averages 50 after 150 matches and has been ultra consistent throughout most of his career despite playing in substandard sides. The only players in WI history you could say are definitively better IMO are Lara, Headley, Sobers and Richards. Allan Border is often more highly rated for some reason despite having very similar records and playing similar roles for their team.

 

[wpdavid]

It's also remarkable how little decline there has been in Chanderpaul's capabilities. He's probably the best 39 year old batsman I've ever seen .

Btw, when was the last time a 40+ batsman scored a hundred in test cricket?

Good question. Maybe Gooch in the early 1990's?

EDIT
In fact he only made one test ton aged 40+
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63646.html

fwiw he made 120 against Aus a few weeks before his 40th birthday, a year or so before the NZ match above.


EDIT 2
None of the following did - Tendulkar, Imran, Border, Waugh S, Jayasuria, Inzamam
So Gooch might well be the last man to do it.

 

[indiaholic]

A lot of accusations of selfishness are because of his willingness to take a single off the first ball of an over when he is batting against tailenders.

 

[Stapel]

For me he is most defenitely an ATG.

I think if he was playing in a better team which won more games people would have taken him a lot more seriously. He is quite underrated tbh. A lot of his exceptional innings haven't got much recognition simply because of the weak side he has played for which didn't win that much.

This!

If we would decide to agree, for the sake of argument, that The Shiv has indeed played too many selfish innings (something to which I strongly disgaree), one should realise he has been in, in far more in times of crisis than any of the other ATG-competitors of his time.

 

[Jassy]

yeah, Chanderpaul should probably have crap records in more than half the places he plays in, that seems to work in terms of being regarded as an ATG.

 

[African Monkey]

Chanderpaul is an interesting one. His statistics are great, and you have to take into account he has played in arguably the weakest teams West Indies have fielded, so he pretty much always comes in during a crisis. But there is just something that prevents him from being one of the greatest. Just something.

He still bats at 5 in a very crap side and have a look at yesterdays innings. He was more interested in the not out than boosting the team total, making the tail do all the work. Great player, but very selfish at the same time.

 

[Jarquis]

Good question. Maybe Gooch in the early 1990's?

EDIT
In fact he only made one test ton aged 40+
1st Test: England v New Zealand at Nottingham, Jun 2-6, 1994 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

fwiw he made 120 against Aus a few weeks before his 40th birthday, a year or so before the NZ match above.


EDIT 2
None of the following did - Tendulkar, Imran, Border, Waugh S, Jayasuria, Inzamam
So Gooch might well be the last man to do it.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Gooch was indeed the last

 

[Jono]

A lot of accusations of selfishness are because of his willingness to take a single off the first ball of an over when he is batting against tailenders.

Tendulkar and Steve Waugh did that.