The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[watson]

If you're ranking bowlers based on international cricket, surely guys like Waqar Younis and Shaun Pollock would be ahead of Larwood and Snow.

lol I only thought for a 'minute' so I forgot about Waqar and Shaun. That said, I don't think that they would break into my top 10-15 anyway.

 

[watson]

Haha. General observation. A specific example will be picking Stan McCabe over Greg Chappell as mentioned in one of the posts in this thread. Not picking on someone but curious why there is an inclination to make such counter intuitive decisions?

Yes, in order to preference McCabe over Greg Chappell you would have to ignore a whole bunch of facts.

 

[smash84]

some bowlers are really under rated for some reason. Alan Davidson for e.g. Tbf I never saw him bowl but he seems to come quite low down the pecking order than his stats would suggest. Richie Benaud and Bradman both rated Wasim Akram as better than him IIRC

 

[fredfertang]

I'd love to know what Fredfertang thinks....

I am humbled that my opinions are sought, so feel obliged to express them (although I would have done anyway )

First question is are we picking the eleven greatest players or the greatest team - for me its the latter so

1.Jack Hobbs

Wonderful record and reputation, of course, and noted for his skill against good bowling or in unfavourable conditions.

2.Len Hutton

I'd rate him the best English batsman ever, for reasons I've articulated elsewhere, but can't find

3.Douglas Jardine

As an Englishman I pick the best captain and then ten to play with him - the fact that Jardine's batting is massively underrated is just a bonus - he'll marshall this bunch superbly. He'll bat at three if one of the openers goes early, but lower down if they see off the new ball OK

4.Wally Hammond

Another genuine ATG and a top slipper - can't be putting too many down at this standard - will also lead England's challenge to Warne and Miller in the Lothario stakes

5.Denis Compton

So many reasons he has to be picked - a bit like a likeable and stylish version of KP - he'll be able to score runs off the likes of O'Reilly and McGrath when the others are tied down, will bamboozle the occasional batsman with his chinaman, terrific right wing and will be Hammond's wingman in the shagathon

6.Ian Botham

Version 1977-1981 - peerless batsman, bowler and slipper - what's not to love

7. Alan Knott

Best wicketkeeper I've ever seen by a distance - wonderful unorthodox bat too, at his best in a crisis

8.Harold Larwood

Finest quick the game has seen, and Jardine wouldn't go on the field without him

9.Jim Laker

Give him a bit of help and he's irresistable - best off spinner ever - never needed a doosra - spun the ball prodigously and batsman could never relax

10. Hedley Verity

Same as Laker but the other way round and, perhaps, just a tad tighter.

11. Brian Statham

Like Glen McGrath only better, and he's a Lancastrian as well - possibly the most underrated bowler in the history of the game - will be a perfect foil for Larwood's expresses and Botham's variety

Spare man - Derek Randall - if you've got spinners as good as Laker and Verity you don't mind if its essentially a seamer's wicket so twelfthers has to be the best fielder I have ever seen

 

[NUFAN]

I don't think that it's quite like that. Anyone could make a reasonable case as to why Simpson or Lawry could make an ATG Aussie team on their OWN merits. Indeed, they could have been 20 years apart and still be front runners.

However, the 'Simpson-Lawry Combo Thing' is merely an added factor like a great cover drive, immaculate defence, good slips catching, or average over 50. By sheer coincidence it gives both players an edge over other openers when all things are equal.

How else am I supposed to split the left-handers Lawry and Morris? I can't otherwise because they are really that close in talent and effect.

Yeah if you think they are the two best individually I don't have any concerns with anyone picking them, it just felt like some players were getting picked as a combo at the expense of other greats who might be better. Its like including Haynes in all time Windies XI to bat with Greenidge.

Last post or two I was talking about Crickets lack of individualism, but I wonder if Simpson helped make Lawry better? Did Hayden made Langer a better batsman? I think Taylor was a great foil for Slater too.

 

[Jager]

In regards to your side Tangy, I'd switch Jardine to 5, making Hammond first drop and Compo following him in at 4. I'd also easily select Trueman over Statham, as much as I admire the latter.

 

[Jager]

Haha. General observation. A specific example will be picking Stan McCabe over Greg Chappell as mentioned in one of the posts in this thread. Not picking on someone but curious why there is an inclination to make such counter intuitive decisions?

I wonder what McCabe could have achieved with the bat had he not had to open the bowling in 19 of his 39 matches.

That being said, Chappell ranks before him in my eyes very comfortably

 

[fredfertang]

In regards to your side Tangy, I'd switch Jardine to 5, making Hammond first drop and Compo following him in at 4. I'd also easily select Trueman over Statham, as much as I admire the latter.

Yes DRJ has to be a movable feast, as he was never much of a dasher - as to Fiery Fred I might in certain circumstances agree with you, but not when I have my red rose tinted spectacles on (which is 95% of the time), and on a more practical level I can't see Fred getting on with DRJ, or wanting to be Larwood and Botham's straight man

 

[Jager]

Yes DRJ has to be a movable feast, as he was never much of a dasher - as to Fiery Fred I might in certain circumstances agree with you, but not when I have my red rose tinted spectacles on (which is 95% of the time), and on a more practical level I can't see Fred getting on with DRJ, or wanting to be Larwood and Botham's straight man

Imagine Fred's anger when he's forced to bowl into the wind while Lol steams in from the other end

 

[fredfertang]

Imagine Fred's anger when he's forced to bowl into the wind while Lol steams in from the other end

...... especially if it was at Headingley

 

[fredfertang]

I wonder what McCabe could have achieved with the bat had he not had to open the bowling in 19 of his 39 matches.

That being said, Chappell ranks before him in my eyes very comfortably

I think McCabe is very possibly the most underrated player the game has seen, and indeed a while ago, I suspect before your time here, I wrote a feature explaining why - still it's his own fault as, rather like Keith Miller, he couldn't really be bothered if the going was too easy

 

[Jager]

Tangy's article: Cricket Web - Features: The All Time Great that CricketWeb forgot

halfway through reading it, will finish it once I get home!

 

[MrPrez]

Will have a go with an SA XI although I'm bound to miss out someone!

1)B.Richards
2)Smith
3)G.Pollock
4)Kallis
5)Nourse
6)Faulkner
7)Proctor
8)Boucher (+)
9)S.Pollock
10)Donald
11)Adcock

It's really impossible to pick the last 3 - Donald and Adcock were tough, but the real biggy was Shaun P vs Steyn vs Peter P. Went for Shaun based on the fact that he would give a variety to the bowling line up but on a different day my choice of last 3 spots would probably be vastly different.

 

[smash84]

I'll take a shot at the Pakistan ATXI

Hanif Mohammad
Saeed Anwar
Inzamam ul Haq
Javed Miandad
Mohammad Yousuf
Salim Malik
Imran Khan (c)
Wasim Bari
Wasim Akram
Waqar Younis
Saqlain/Ajmal/Qadir

12th Man: Shoaib Akhtar

A pretty formidable line up

 

[kyear2]

G. Smith
B. Richards
J. Kallis
G. Pollock
D. Nourse
A. Faulkner
D. Lindsay
M. Procter
S. Pollock / D. Steyn
H. Tayfield
A. Donald

 

[Jager]

1. Barry Richards
2. Bruce Mitchell
3. Jacques Kallis - 6
4. Graeme Pollock
5. Dudley Nourse
6. Aubrey Faulkner - 5
7. John Waite+
8. Mike Procter - 1
9. Hugh Tayfield - 4
10. Allan Donald - 2
11. Neil Adcock/Dale Steyn - 3

 

[ankitj]

Bruce Mitchell
Barry Richards
Jacques Kallis
Greame Pollock
Dudley Nourse
Mike Procter
Dennis Lindsay +
Shaun Pollock
Hugh Tayfield
Dale Steyn
Allan Donald

Too harsh on Faulkner. But can't keep Steyn out any longer, and can't have Faulkner as the only spinner (in my mind he was a batting all-rounder).

 

[kyear2]

Why the Graeme Smith hate? Record is very good and would captain team to boot. Trending Steyn over Pollock. Would keep Faulkner as Kallis can always help if more pace is required.

 

[fredfertang]

Richard is/was a fan of Fat Gray which, to some, is of itself reason enough to dislike him.

Herbie Taylor worthy of a mention, imo anyway

 

[BoyBrumby]

Richard is/was a fan of Fat Gray which, to some, is of itself reason enough to dislike him.

So many other good reasons to dislike Dicko too tho, tbf.





































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