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*** Official New Zealand Domestic Cricket 2011/2012 ***
- Thread starter Howsie
- Start date
thierry henry
International Coach
Something which bugs me and I believe I have mentioned it before: why has Bruce Martin never been given a go for NZ, and why on Earth has he been dropped from the Auckland List A side?
His List A record is quite outstanding for an NZ spinner- better than Nathan McCullum and miles better than Jeetan Patel or Luke Woodcock. His first class record is also noticeably better than Patel's.
Also, those with long memories may recall he was named as 12th man for a test vs Australia as a 19 year old in 1999/2000, so obviously he was seen as a bowler with potential. By and large he has delivered on that potential with good performances by NZ standards, so why have the likes of Patel and Woodcock been preferred despite being demonstrably poorer performers?
Also worth pointing out he's the same age as McCullum and Patel so that's not an issue.
In terms of making the Auckland List A side, his record is miles better than Hira's so it's beyond me why he isn't in there. His record indicates List A is his strongest suit yet he seems to have been permanently dropped in that format.
Probably no big deal as he would have just gone on to become another ho-hum NZ spinner, but illogical NZ selections which seem to completely ignore performance are obviously one of my bugbears.
His List A record is quite outstanding for an NZ spinner- better than Nathan McCullum and miles better than Jeetan Patel or Luke Woodcock. His first class record is also noticeably better than Patel's.
Also, those with long memories may recall he was named as 12th man for a test vs Australia as a 19 year old in 1999/2000, so obviously he was seen as a bowler with potential. By and large he has delivered on that potential with good performances by NZ standards, so why have the likes of Patel and Woodcock been preferred despite being demonstrably poorer performers?
Also worth pointing out he's the same age as McCullum and Patel so that's not an issue.
In terms of making the Auckland List A side, his record is miles better than Hira's so it's beyond me why he isn't in there. His record indicates List A is his strongest suit yet he seems to have been permanently dropped in that format.
Probably no big deal as he would have just gone on to become another ho-hum NZ spinner, but illogical NZ selections which seem to completely ignore performance are obviously one of my bugbears.
Ah but he wouldn't be in your club team because he is actually good! Ha
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Dude you've never seen Jacques Rudolph.You've never seen Franklin bat?
Athlai
Not Terrible
Phlegm just really hates South Africa IMO.
_Ed_
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Hard to disagree with that.
I noticed three or four seasons ago that Chris Martin started wearing "C MARTIN" on his shirt in ODIs, so Bruce must have been in the national selectors' minds then. He just, inexplicably, never got a shot.
thierry henry
International Coach
heh, that's interesting. I can sort of understand N. McCullum getting a run as at least he is economical at List A level and can bat a bit. In Woodcock's case, Martin had been dropped from the Auckland List A side by then so was out of the picture, but given Woodcock has played mostly as a bowler for NZ I'm pretty convinced Martin would do a better job.
The thought process of the selectors when they decided to give Jeets a run 5 or 6 years ago despite Martin having a far better record in all forms and having previously been on their radar is bewildering.
As much as I want Ronnie to be picked for NZ it wouldn't make much sense for him to be picked for ODIs, his economy is only so-so and he struggles to take wickets. T20 specialist.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
It was right after that when Martin went through an absolutely terrible patch consisting of multiple seasons though, wasn't it? I mean I guess you could argue that maybe he was a bit disillusioned by not being selected but if he was going to produce the sort of bowling that returned him 8 wickets @ 86 in the Plunket Shield season of 2007 at international level well then it was probably better for his legacy that he didn't get picked. Averaged 40+ in seasons either side of that too; had a real horror patch.
Don't know if he was any better in one day cricket mind; don't really follow it much domestically outside Australia.
thierry henry
International Coach
Not sure tbh, he probably would've been just as bad as Jeets at test cricket anyway. Hard to fault his List A record though.
He must have had a pretty flash FC record (certainly compared to Jeets!) circa 2005 then? Average of 30-odd or lower?
Anyway, it all adds up to it being baffling that List A is the format where he has been discarded.
Athlai
Not Terrible
Before the 05-06 season he had figures of 134 W @ 29.66 since that period he has 124 W @ 42.10. Had a real horror run from 2005-6 to 2009-10 where he averaged 86 @ 46.38.
If we break Jeets down in a similar way we get.
Before the 05-06 season he he had figures of 86 W @ 40.56 (with only one season averaging below 35, which was the 04-05 season).
Since that period he has 163 W @ 41.52 which is pretty comparable to Martin. Throughout Martin's poor patch Jeets went at 111 W @ 42.78 (this includes Test figures of 37 W @ 42.89).
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thierry henry
International Coach
05/06 was when Jeets was first selected amirite? No wonder he would have been despondent from then on!
And tbh even his "horror" period is just basically equal to Jeets' career....
Any equivalent breakdown of his List A career? Preferably with economy?
edit: My point about "Martin's horror patch=Jeets' whole career" confirmed by you XD
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Athlai
Not Terrible
Haha well I think both Jeets and Martin suffered a little from NZ pitches getting a bit more batting friendly during the Martin horror stretch but yeah they're both **** tbh.
thierry henry
International Coach
tbh there is a massive difference between the two up to the point where Jeets was picked. Pretty diabolical selection really.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Jeetan Patel's journey to the Test side was really pretty weird. He got picked in ODIs as a specialist death bowler of all things and that got him a run as a proper middle overs spinner somehow when two were needed in what I think was the Champions Trophy in the subcontinent or something similar; he bowled a couple of really big-spinning deliveries and got a run in Tests because of that.
Whatever happened to him being a death bowler anyway?
Whatever happened to him being a death bowler anyway?
thierry henry
International Coach
I actually clearly remember watching when he bowled a couple of good death overs in a televised List A game. Basically, he just bowled fast yorkers. Then he bowled a really good spell against Sri Lanka in one of the ODIs (I think at Wellington) and showed he could turn the ball, which of course he can.
Really just a shocking example of the NZ selection policy, two spinners the same age with equal domestic experience, one with a vastly better record, but the other gets picked and ends up appearing in all forms over the next 5 years because he bowled some good yorkers on TV once.
thierry henry
International Coach
ffsJeets from 1999-2006 in List A
45W @ 38.37 economy 4.72
Martin same period
54W @ 26.85 economy 3.93
Suggests that Martin really did fall off after 2006 in List A as well. Clearly emotionally shattered by Jeets' ridiculous selection. Understandable tbf.
wellAlbidarned
International Coach
Almost completely irrelevant, but having lived in Hamilton the past five years I've noticed that while the town itself isn't awfully exciting, it's situated so there's an awesome selection of good OTHER places to go within a manageable two hour drive or so. It's a hugely understated asset of the 'Tron imo.
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Do you think that maybe the fact that Martin is, like Vettori, a SLA bowler may have counted against him?
So when they were looking at options for playing a second spinner, maybe selectors wanted to go for something different.
Definitely not saying I agree with that; just that it may have been a factor. And I think it's something NZ selectors have been guilty of in the past - how else would Brooke Walker have played Tests?
So when they were looking at options for playing a second spinner, maybe selectors wanted to go for something different.
Definitely not saying I agree with that; just that it may have been a factor. And I think it's something NZ selectors have been guilty of in the past - how else would Brooke Walker have played Tests?