Butt/Amir/Asif - Spot Fixing Trial

[uvelocity]

Thread's gone Godwin, I'm out.

awta

 

[Jacknife]

Not disagreeing with you here, but what's that to do with what was the initial point?

Infact, it further reinforces the point wrt to the other 2 being in normal prison vs Amir being in this YOP.

What, you can see the link between what AN said and what I put.
His original post was this

Amir got the worst deal out of the lot. Feltham Young Offender's institution is full of racist chavs. In fact a Pakistani got his head bashed in by one a few years ago. It also has a high suicide rate.

I gather from that he thinks that this particular one is worse than the others, just because there was the one incident doesn't mean the prison is full of racists looking to beat on Asians imo he's drawn conclusions based on that news article. My understanding of Feltham is it's a huge mix of races and cultures from youths from all over the London area.

The point I was making was that whatever place he got sent to and that includes adult prisons, you could find a story about an assault or a stabbing etc in everyone. The facts are prisons can be dangerous places.

IMO he should be looked after by other Pakistani guys while he's in there for the 3 months, so he'll be alright.

 

[Jacknife]

Thread's gone Godwin, I'm out.

 

[keeper]

It could be argued that while Asif is clearly immoral, Hitler was merely amoral.

 

[morgieb]

As much as Asif's a scumbag, Beeves's post is just wrong on many levels.

As our old friend Dicky used to say, EXD.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

What, you can see the link between what AN said and what I put.
His original post was this



I gather from that he thinks that this particular one is worse than the others, just because there was the one incident doesn't mean the prison is full of racists looking to beat on Asians imo he's drawn conclusions based on that news article. My understanding of Feltham is it's a huge mix of races and cultures from youths from all over the London area.

The point I was making was that whatever place he got sent to and that includes adult prisons, you could find a story about an assault or a stabbing etc in everyone. The facts are prisons can be dangerous places.

IMO he should be looked after by other Pakistani guys while he's in there for the 3 months, so he'll be alright.

I think I may have gone a little OTT with that one incident and made rash conclusions. It's probably why Ginger Furball thought I was pulling the race card. My bad on that one.

 

[Fusion]

It could be argued that while Asif is clearly immoral, Hitler was merely amoral.

Whether that's true or not, it still doesn't change the fact that Hitler was a bigger **** than Asif. There's no argument about that. To even place Asif in the same company as Hitler or any other mass murderers is simply preposterous. Asif is not even even anywhere near the top of the white collar crime chart ffs.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Don't anger the Fusion

 

[silentstriker]

Whether that's true or not, it still doesn't change the fact that Hitler was a bigger **** than Asif. There's no argument about that. To even place Asif in the same company as Hitler or any other mass murderers is simply preposterous. Asif is not even even anywhere near the top of the white collar crime chart ffs.

Dude, why are you even arguing it?

 

[keeper]

Don't anger the Fusion

Think there's definitely scope for a couple of follow-up threads. 'At least Stalin didn't ball tamper" or maybe 'Pol Pot never bowled bodyline'.

Apologies for the oblique humour, never wanted to offend. But in tears at this thread, genuinely funny.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Stalin would have done a Miandad and bashed Lillee's head in with the bat.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

So if Asif is Hitler does it make Butt Mussolini and Amir Stalin?

 

[r3alist]

I feel stupider for replying to some people.

 

[Cevno]

What, you can see the link between what AN said and what I put.
His original post was this



I gather from that he thinks that this particular one is worse than the others, just because there was the one incident doesn't mean the prison is full of racists looking to beat on Asians imo he's drawn conclusions based on that news article. My understanding of Feltham is it's a huge mix of races and cultures from youths from all over the London area.

The point I was making was that whatever place he got sent to and that includes adult prisons, you could find a story about an assault or a stabbing etc in everyone. The facts are prisons can be dangerous places.

IMO he should be looked after by other Pakistani guys while he's in there for the 3 months, so he'll be alright.

Don't want to get into the racist ****, but i believe the initial point made by Agent N was that this Youth Prison is worse than the normal prison which Asif, Butt and Majeed will go too and hence it is tougher for him compared to others.
And that is what all the English posters have said as well and what reading information about it tells too.

IF GF wanted to only highlight that part he could have only quoted that part or clarified later. Don't know what Prison's in other countries or whether there is racism or not has to do with what i was trying to say. Even that attack and murder won't necessarily have been due to racist reasons.

 

[Jacknife]

Don't want to get into the racist ****, but i believe the initial point made by Agent N was that this Youth Prison is worse than the normal prison which Asif, Butt and Majeed will go too and hence it is tougher for him compared to others.
And that is what all the English posters have said as well and what reading information about it tells too.

IF GF wanted to only highlight that part he could have only quoted that part or clarified later. Don't know what Prison's in other countries or whether there is racism or not has to do with what i was trying to say. Even that attack and murder won't necessarily have been due to racist reasons.

Don't know where you're going with this at all, or what more I can add to what I've said especially when I haven't argued otherwise about YOP's and the point I was making AN has addressed.

But what are you going on about in the highlighted bit, where have I mentioned anything about prisons in other countries to you and racism only got mentioned because the original post that started this off from AN, said Feltham was full of racist chav's and highlighted a case where a white guy killed his Asian cell mate.

 

[Cevno]

Don't know where you're going with this at all, or what more I can add to what I've said especially when I haven't argued otherwise about YOP's and the point I was making AN has addressed.

But what are you going on about in the highlighted bit, where have I mentioned anything about prisons in other countries to you and racism only got mentioned because the original post that started this off from AN, said Feltham was full of racist chav's and highlighted a case where a white guy killed his Asian cell mate.

Yes Agent N highlighted racism and it is certainly not inconceivable that it may be full of racist chavs considering it is a prison, but that is besides the point.

The point i was referring to was that YOP was worse than normal prison and hence the comment that Amir wlould have it tougher and expression of concern. Which was highlighted by that murder and you agreed too.

As for the Prison in other countries part, it was someone else's post i guess,my bad. Don't know what you are disagreeing with me on now broadly tbh.

 

[Scaly piscine]

The basic principle a lot of people are missing is you can be the biggest morally bankrupt stain of humanity but if you have no power then your negative effect on the world will be dwarfed by anyone vaguely tilting towards amorality/immorality who is in a position of power. Your negative effect on the world doesn't equate exactly to your evilness/crapness as a human being. A generally strong drive or character merely increases the potential of the magnitude of your influence, whether that person turns out to be good or bad. Whether you like it or not most of the good and bad people in history share a lot of traits. Unless someone is particularly intelligent then people are very much a product of their environment and upbringing (and intelligence itself depends somewhat on your upbringing). I think too many things are simplified into good and evil, most evil things are done by someone who genuinely think they're the good guy or have what they perceive as a 'good' motive. Obviously there are usually other mitigating factors as well.

With regards to Asif I think he's been around, he's smart enough, seen many cultures and has a comfortable enough lifestyle to make his own true choices in life, to exert his real personality. Which is obviously one of a complete tit. He is a conniving, selfish individual.

I could see how someone like Amir could have been heavily influenced by the dubious culture around the Pakistan set-up. If he grew up in a different cricketing country I think he'd have broadly followed whatever the culture around there was and likely wouldn't have gotten involved in spot fixing. But that didn't happen and the ICC have a responsibility to look after cricket, which is why I believe he should have been perma-banned.

Anyway anything else along these lines should probably be left for Off Topic.

I will be interested to see how ICC's further investigation goes. Whether there'll be enough evidence at their level to charge more players.

 

[silentstriker]

'Pol Pot never bowled bodyline'

Sigworthy tbh.

 

[honestbharani]

Not in his eyes.

So let's get this straight.. the man who slaughtered thousands of people is suddenly better than the guy who bowled a no ball on purpose for some cash.. Yeah, right..

 

[honestbharani]

No, Hitler's extreme hatred of Jews stemmed from well before he could be corrupted or deluded by any sort of power.

And that is somehow a redeeming quality? Jeez... this forum sometimes.........