*Official* England in India

[Prince EWS]

It ain't easy by any means, and I'm not suggesting we lay down the law with respect to Finn. If he's bowling well and the oppo take the batting powerplay then I'd be fine with giving him a go. I just don't want him to have the new ball.

My current thinking for England's ODI side is to play Anderson at home (with Bres at #7, he's fine there) and Patel away, with Swann, Broad and Finn making up the rest of the attack. It's a bit of a cop out but bear with me.

Bresnan isn't that great in ODIs, but he's proven that he can do the job before now. The main reason we need him is because he's one of very few who have showed they can bowl well with the new ball and at the death. Broad would be our other death bowler.

Away from home, I think we could get away with bringing the spinners on for a couple of early overs each, allowing you to delay bringing Finn on. At home, we've got three other seamers so it's not much of a problem.

A 6th bowler is pretty important in limited overs cricket because you have to change the plan so often. Bopara is our best bet there right now, though I'm hopeful for Stokes.

Fair enough; I can't really argue with that much. I'd pick Samit ahead of Bopara at all times though, rolling with something like:

1. Cook
2. Davies
3. Trott
4. Pietersen
5. Morgan
6. Patel (on with Swann in the middle overs; bowl some of Anderson's or Finn's overs if need be)
7. Bresnan (quick burst at first change from Broad's end but most of his overs saved for the last 15)
8. Broad (quick burst with the new ball but most of his overs saved for the last 15)
9. Swann (on after Brensan)
10. Anderson (bowl up front until it stops swinging; no second spell)
11. Finn (on from Anderson's end after it stops swinging; long spell unless carted)

On slow pitches I'd probably dump Anderson or Bresnan for Buttler for Taylor; I'd be comfortable enough in Trott sending down a few overs as the sixth bowler if need be. I used to be pretty big on Bopara batting seven as a finisher and being the fifth bowler, but I've lost faith in him really and he seems to have changed his game a bit away from that explosive style in the last couple of seasons.

The bloke I really have hope for is Woakes, but
a) He keeps getting injured; and
b) Every time I look at his List A record I feel pretty disappointed

 

[Daemon]

Isn't there an alternative to Bresnan? His bowling's not good enough to warrant a thinning of the batting order imo. But then of course you've got that whole death bowling dilemma once again.

 

[Prince EWS]

Isn't there an alternative to Bresnan? His bowling's not good enough to warrant a thinning of the batting order imo. But then of course you've got that whole death bowling dilemma once again.

Bresnan isn't very good at one day cricket in general, but he's the only viable non-Broad death bowling option at this stage. It's Anderson that thins the batting lineup there really but I think it's probably worth the chance of him running through a side, as long as he's not required to bowl a second spell.

Could bring back Luke Wright and make him bowl at the death.

 

[Furball]

Picking up on Jake's "I'd only pick Anderson at home" comment, it's interesting to note that of the 10 ODIs that James Anderson has missed this year (the first 3 in Australia, England's final two games in the World Cup and the most recent series) the only match England have actually managed to win is the World Cup game against the West Indies.

Now, the two aren't necessarily related, but it's interesting nonetheless.

 

[Daemon]

How's Sajid Mahmood looking nowadays?

 

[Prince EWS]

How's Sajid Mahmood looking nowadays?

If that's a genuine question/suggestion then you're banned.

 

[Daemon]

If that's a genuine question/suggestion then you're banned.

 

[Scaly piscine]

England need Patel and Stokes as the 5th bowler. The balance is poor otherwise. That then also allows England to play Buttler or whoever to get the experience finishing innings at an international level (for when England manage to bat 50 overs) - so you're (having a go at) strengthening areas England are really weak at instead of just accepting we're going to be crap at death batting and have limited bowling options.

 

[Howe_zat]

Fair enough; I can't really argue with that much. I'd pick Samit ahead of Bopara at all times though, rolling with something like:

1. Cook
2. Davies
3. Trott
4. Pietersen
5. Morgan
6. Patel (on with Swann in the middle overs; bowl some of Anderson's or Finn's overs if need be)
7. Bresnan (quick burst at first change from Broad's end but most of his overs saved for the last 15)
8. Broad (quick burst with the new ball but most of his overs saved for the last 15)
9. Swann (on after Brensan)
10. Anderson (bowl up front until it stops swinging; no second spell)
11. Finn (on from Anderson's end after it stops swinging; long spell unless carted)

On slow pitches I'd probably dump Anderson or Bresnan for Buttler for Taylor; I'd be comfortable enough in Trott sending down a few overs as the sixth bowler if need be. I used to be pretty big on Bopara batting seven as a finisher and being the fifth bowler, but I've lost faith in him really and he seems to have changed his game a bit away from that explosive style in the last couple of seasons.

The bloke I really have hope for is Woakes, but
a) He keeps getting injured; and
b) Every time I look at his List A record I feel pretty disappointed

Yeah, that's fair. You evidently rate big Sam's batting a bit higher than I do. Agree with the Woakes point too.

Picking up on Jake's "I'd only pick Anderson at home" comment, it's interesting to note that of the 10 ODIs that James Anderson has missed this year (the first 3 in Australia, England's final two games in the World Cup and the most recent series) the only match England have actually managed to win is the World Cup game against the West Indies.

Now, the two aren't necessarily related, but it's interesting nonetheless.

The two are absolutely related, because we've only been able to win ODIs lately when the ball's swung and we've taken new ball wickets. That match against the West Indies was a wee bit on the mental side.

I don't think Anderson is finished in overseas one-dayers, sometimes your best bowler is just your best bowler. My concern with him is that because of how he bowls, he's naturally going to be part of the problem every now and then, and that's vastly more likely overseas. Considering the international workload for quick bowlers, and that sacrificing him helps the team balance anyway, I'm happy not to have the lynchpin of our Test attack being temperamental on ODI tours.

How's Sajid Mahmood looking nowadays?

Some things aren't funny.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Dernbach is a **** **** who shouldn't play

To be honest tho, given Broad is injured and Anderson being rested, who's he keeping out?

Could maybe make a case for Onions, but he's still feeling his way back and, given Meaker seems the next cab off the rank, I don't think it's that big a travesty Dernbach gets a gig. Not like he's keeping out Garner and McGrath.

How's Sajid Mahmood looking nowadays?

Grey.

& ****e, obvz.

 

[Furball]

Dernbach was certainly worth a look and I think there's an ODI bowler in there. Not right now though.

 

[grecian]

To be honest tho, given Broad is injured and Anderson being rested, who's he keeping out?

Could maybe make a case for Onions, but he's still feeling his way back and, given Meaker seems the next cab off the rank, I don't think it's that big a travesty Dernbach gets a gig. Not like he's keeping out Garner and McGrath.



Grey.

& ****e, obvz.

Jon Lewis will be back in soon, he's moved to Slurrey after all, and I'd honestly prefer him to Dernbach & Meaker, but I would say that about a lot of steady county bowlers. Him being 36 maybe a draw-back though.

Wouldn't mind "dial M" being given a chance, but again age is against him. Oh and despite last year, I'd still rather have Shahzad then both.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Jon Lewis will be back in soon, he's moved to Slurrey after all, and I'd honestly prefer him to Dernbach & Meaker, but I would say that about a lot of steady county bowlers. Him being 36 maybe a draw-back though.

Wouldn't mind "dial M" being given a chance, but again age is against him. Oh and despite last year, I'd still rather have Shahzad then both.

Trouble with Lewis tho is that we'd have to bowl him for ten overs straight at the beginning for him to be of even semi-use.

Ditto Murtagh, I suppose. Slightly quicker and taller, but very much an "English" seamer, despite him making noises about fancying a crack in green. Better FC bowler than List A for my money.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Are the Indian players getting pinged for dissent? It seems like every other game an English player is, but there's never any reports of Indians being fined. Is it just not being reported on or can we all add it to the conspiracy theory list?

Suppose Indian getting significantly less shafted in the first place would be part of the reason.

 

[grecian]

Trouble with Lewis tho is that we'd have to bowl him for ten overs straight at the beginning for him to be of even semi-use.

Ditto Murtagh, I suppose. Slightly quicker and taller, but very much an "English" seamer, despite him making noises about fancying a crack in green. Better FC bowler than List A for my money.

I still don't get the argument for Dirtbag though Brumbers. It's all very well saying we need death bowlers, and he occasionally comes off in this regard, but he's so easy to score off the rest of the time, that there's a good chance by the death the games over. If he could bat, you might say there's a case for his inclusion, just to bowl at the end, but he can't. I'd rather have Ravi get through his ten then Jade, I'm afraid.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I still don't get the argument for Dirtbag though Brumbers. It's all very well saying we need death bowlers, and he occasionally comes off in this regard, but he's so easy to score off the rest of the time, that there's a good chance by the death the games over. If he could bat, you might say there's a case for his inclusion, just to bowl at the end, but he can't. I'd rather have Ravi get through his ten then Jade, I'm afraid.

I'm not an especial fan of his or anything, but he was comfortably the best List A bowler in England last summer so his selection at least had some justification. Leading List A wicket takers in 2011.

It's Hobson's Choice, but we've made worse. Like Meaker who I can't see any case for. Played less than half a dozen times for Surrey & wasn't picked for the CB40 final because the Lords track was thought to favour spin. Quite like India, in fact.

Yes, he's quick, but naked nuts sent down at 90mph are still fodder for international batsmen with anything about them.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

I think the experiment with Dernbach should end. At least the guy has had a proper chance and been found wanting unlike so many bowlers over the years who get one or two matches and then get thrown on the scrapheap if they haven't done well. He can't say he wasn't given a decent run in the team and we have enough promising bowlers to be able to pick somebody else ahead of him.

 

[marc71178]

yeah England has to get over this idea the keeper must open

The problem is that it's now filtering down to county level and most of the counties seem to be opening with their keepers.

 

[grecian]

I'm not an especial fan of his or anything, but he was comfortably the best List A bowler in England last summer so his selection at least had some justification. Leading List A wicket takers in 2011.

It's Hobson's Choice, but we've made worse. Like Meaker who I can't see any case for. Played less than half a dozen times for Surrey & wasn't picked for the CB40 final because the Lords track was thought to favour spin. Quite like India, in fact.

Yes, he's quick, but naked nuts sent down at 90mph are still fodder for international batsmen with anything about them.

Yeah, I see your point, a pretty depressing list for England fans, all the decent English-qualified guys won't see their thirtieth birthday again. Paul Franks looking good, which is shocking in itself.

 

[Viscount Tom]

Are the Indian players getting pinged for dissent? It seems like every other game an English player is, but there's never any reports of Indians being fined. Is it just not being reported on or can we all add it to the conspiracy theory list?

Suppose Indian getting significantly less shafted in the first place would be part of the reason.

I was more surprised he got fined for dissent rather than calling the umpire a t**t when India were batting.

I'm not an especial fan of his or anything, but he was comfortably the best List A bowler in England last summer so his selection at least had some justification. Leading List A wicket takers in 2011.

It's Hobson's Choice, but we've made worse. Like Meaker who I can't see any case for. Played less than half a dozen times for Surrey & wasn't picked for the CB40 final because the Lords track was thought to favour spin. Quite like India, in fact.

Yes, he's quick, but naked nuts sent down at 90mph are still fodder for international batsmen with anything about them.

I wouldn't worry about Jade () sending down many 90mph balls he's more obsessed with trying to get a ball to just roll along the ground I reckon.