*Official* England in India

[honestbharani]

well now that k_f has been banned for whatever length, time to steer this thread away from the crap it has been for the last few pages.


All forms of the game have a place in today's world and they all need each other to survive. Tests are the ultimate form of the game IMO too but it is also obvious there are serious problems with respect to interest of the general public on that form of the game. To steal a phase from pro-wrestling, the casual fans (who make up the majority) are just not supporting that form that much apart from maybe England and Australia, India to an extent...


England showed great skill in today's game but I would still back India to beat England over a 3 or 5 match T20 series. England definitely seemed more at home and more up for it today than India and credit to them. Also, it is sheer stupidity to not have KP opening in the shorter versions of the game. The guys batting above him are not that good and you got nothing to lose by sending him up top. Who knows, he might rediscover his ODI form too batting up the order.


India were simply not up for this game and playing Uthappa as an opener was just stupid. He has done well batting at #5 and that is where he should have been. We should have had Gambhir playing today. He is one of our better T20 batsmen and we could have perhaps tried out Yuvraj too..

 

[Jacknife]

well now that k_f has been banned for whatever length, time to steer this thread away from the crap it has been for the last few pages.


All forms of the game have a place in today's world and they all need each other to survive. Tests are the ultimate form of the game IMO too but it is also obvious there are serious problems with respect to interest of the general public on that form of the game. To steal a phase from pro-wrestling, the casual fans (who make up the majority) are just not supporting that form that much apart from maybe England and Australia, India to an extent...


England showed great skill in today's game but I would still back India to beat England over a 3 or 5 match T20 series. England definitely seemed more at home and more up for it today than India and credit to them. Also, it is sheer stupidity to not have KP opening in the shorter versions of the game. The guys batting above him are not that good and you got nothing to lose by sending him up top. Who knows, he might rediscover his ODI form too batting up the order.


India were simply not up for this game and playing Uthappa as an opener was just stupid. He has done well batting at #5 and that is where he should have been. We should have had Gambhir playing today. He is one of our better T20 batsmen and we could have perhaps tried out Yuvraj too..

Agree and imo it's a experiment that went unfinished because he left the WC injured but in the one day game opening is the best place to bat, so why not put a guy who can be so dangerous and has proved, albeit not recently in 50 over cricket, that he's world class.
With Cook obviously continuing to open, KP would make the ideal foil to him.

 

[Spikey]

yeah England has to get over this idea the keeper must open

 

[Howe_zat]

Well this thread became unreadable rather quickly.

Watching the highlights as we speak. Steve Finn's a #1 good times pal imo.

 

[Howe_zat]

Bopara making Pathan look like an idiot with floaty 60mph trash.

And reverse swing after 15 overs? Superb ball tampering skills on display today.

Edit: Swanny keeping him on after a good couple of overs to bowl the 19th probably wasn't a bad move, but says something rather dire about our death bowling stocks.

 

[keeper]

I was netting so missed this, but looks like another strong one day performance from Finn.

Does any other international bowler have such a small difference between their Test and one day economy rates?

 

[Howe_zat]

I was netting so missed this, but looks like another strong one day performance from Finn.

Does any other international bowler have such a small difference between their Test and one day economy rates?

Finn's career economy rate is still pretty ordinary, tbh. It'll stay that way unless he's used differently with respect to powerplays.

To answer the question, I think Morne Morkel has a Test economy of around 3.5 and an ODI economy of around 4.5.

 

[Howe_zat]

Jadeja turning it like a vampire. I have no idea what India's full strength one day side looks like, but Jadeja must have a fair shout at making it on bowling alone.

 

[Howe_zat]

There's so little pace in this pitch that I'm fairly sure some of these balls are yawning before reaching the batsman. So there a simply staggering amount of biff involved to switch-hit that for six. Remarkable shot.

 

[keeper]

Finn's career economy rate is still pretty ordinary, tbh. It'll stay that way unless he's used differently with respect to powerplays.

To answer the question, I think Morne Morkel has a Test economy of around 3.5 and an ODI economy of around 4.5.

Indeed, it says more about his high Test rate than anything. Still, I'm impressed with what I am seeing and it seems to be going the right way. Can you expand on what you mean about how he is used in powerplays?

Looks like the difference in Morkel's bowling has widened but it is of a similar ilk.

Morne Morkel | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Howe_zat]

Can you expand on what you mean about how he is used in powerplays?

Just because he's a seamer doesn't mean you should use him in the first 10 overs. He doesn't really swing the new ball so you're not getting anything out of giving it to him, and the lack of boundary cover means he gets a ton of edges down to third man for four.

Used outside of the powerplays, he'll be a hell of a lot less expensive and would be able to continue bowling fast at batsmen attempting to accumulate against the spinners through the middle overs. Puts pressure on them and giving us a wicket-taking threat that isn't Swann during that period.

 

[Howe_zat]

Anyhoo, final thought on this is that I've seen enough of this guy's umpiring. Good game though.

 

[Jacknife]

Just because he's a seamer doesn't mean you should use him in the first 10 overs. He doesn't really swing the new ball so you're not getting anything out of giving it to him, and the lack of boundary cover means he gets a ton of edges down to third man for four.

Used outside of the powerplays, he'll be a hell of a lot less expensive and would be able to continue bowling fast at batsmen attempting to accumulate against the spinners through the middle overs. Puts pressure on them and giving us a wicket-taking threat that isn't Swann during that period.

I think if he was surrounded by better bowlers you could have done that this tour but he was the only bowler who was creating chances up front and that's where England need to take wickets. If he was bowling with Broad and Anderson I could defo see some advantges in what your saying though.

 

[Jacknife]

Anyhoo, final thought on this is that I've seen enough of this guy's umpiring. Good game though.

Speaking of which, KP got reprimanded for his reaction when given out, I personally thought he showed great restraint.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

yeah England has to get over this idea the keeper must open

Obviously depends who it is. If we picked Davies I wouldn't have a problem with it as he is a very good opener for Slurrey anyway. Bedwetter isn't good enough as he is a 4 or nothing man, far too many dot balls at the start of an innings. Maybe it is time give Bairstow or Buttler a run with the gloves batting at 6 or 7 anyway.

I agree with others on here that KP should open though, give your best and most destructive player in the format the maximum amount of time possible at the crease.

 

[Prince EWS]

Just because he's a seamer doesn't mean you should use him in the first 10 overs. He doesn't really swing the new ball so you're not getting anything out of giving it to him, and the lack of boundary cover means he gets a ton of edges down to third man for four.

Used outside of the powerplays, he'll be a hell of a lot less expensive and would be able to continue bowling fast at batsmen attempting to accumulate against the spinners through the middle overs. Puts pressure on them and giving us a wicket-taking threat that isn't Swann during that period.

I'd be interested in seeing someone actually draw up a bowling plan for England's ODI side. Obviously you have to react to the match situation and your bowling changes are dictated by the conditions, who's bowling well, the batsman's strengths and weaknesses etc but I'd really like to see someone's idea of a "Plan A" for England's bowler allotment. There are lots of ideal roles for certain bowlers that people speak of and I tend to agree with most of them, but you still need someone to actually bowl the other overs - it's all well and good saying that Anderson should only bowl with the new ball, Finn and Swann should bowl in the middle overs, Dernbach is a **** **** who shouldn't play and Brensan isn't good enough to bat seven in ODIs, but that leaves you Samit Patel bowling in the batting PowerPlay and Ravi Bopara bowling at the death (unless they change the rules allowing Broad to bowl at both ends for 15 overs).

 

[Howe_zat]

Speaking of which, KP got reprimanded for his reaction when given out, I personally thought he showed great restraint.

Nuts.

The commentators were all praising him for keeping his head down and walking, I didn't see him do a thing other than shake his head.

 

[keeper]

Just because he's a seamer doesn't mean you should use him in the first 10 overs. He doesn't really swing the new ball so you're not getting anything out of giving it to him, and the lack of boundary cover means he gets a ton of edges down to third man for four.

Used outside of the powerplays, he'll be a hell of a lot less expensive and would be able to continue bowling fast at batsmen attempting to accumulate against the spinners through the middle overs. Puts pressure on them and giving us a wicket-taking threat that isn't Swann during that period.

Oh yeah, more of a Donald role. At some point we've got to have some mid-innings penetration in our bowling. We have enough batting depth to protect the top order.

 

[Daemon]

I'd be interested in seeing someone actually draw up a bowling plan for England's ODI side. Obviously you have to react to the match situation and your bowling changes are dictated by the conditions, who's bowling well, the batsman's strengths and weaknesses etc but I'd really like to see someone's idea of a "Plan A" for England's bowler allotment. There are lots of ideal roles for certain bowlers that people speak of and I tend to agree with most of them, but you still need someone to actually bowl the other overs - it's all well and good saying that Anderson should only bowl with the new ball, Finn and Swann should bowl in the middle overs, Dernbach is a **** **** who shouldn't play and Brensan isn't good enough to bat seven in ODIs, but that leaves you Samit Patel bowling in the batting PowerPlay and Ravi Bopara bowling at the death (unless they change the rules allowing Broad to bowl at both ends for 15 overs).

Just hope that the side gets bowled out by the 40th over, no need to worry about the death bowling then

 

[Howe_zat]

I'd be interested in seeing someone actually draw up a bowling plan for England's ODI side. Obviously you have to react to the match situation and your bowling changes are dictated by the conditions, who's bowling well, the batsman's strengths and weaknesses etc but I'd really like to see someone's idea of a "Plan A" for England's bowler allotment. There are lots of ideal roles for certain bowlers that people speak of and I tend to agree with most of them, but you still need someone to actually bowl the other overs - it's all well and good saying that Anderson should only bowl with the new ball, Finn and Swann should bowl in the middle overs, Dernbach is a **** **** who shouldn't play and Brensan isn't good enough to bat seven in ODIs, but that leaves you Samit Patel bowling in the batting PowerPlay and Ravi Bopara bowling at the death (unless they change the rules allowing Broad to bowl at both ends for 15 overs).

It ain't easy by any means, and I'm not suggesting we lay down the law with respect to Finn. If he's bowling well and the oppo take the batting powerplay then I'd be fine with giving him a go. I just don't want him to have the new ball.

My current thinking for England's ODI side is to play Anderson at home (with Bres at #7, he's fine there) and Patel away, with Swann, Broad and Finn making up the rest of the attack. It's a bit of a cop out but bear with me.

Bresnan isn't that great in ODIs, but he's proven that he can do the job before now. The main reason we need him is because he's one of very few who have showed they can bowl well with the new ball and at the death. Broad would be our other death bowler.

Away from home, I think we could get away with bringing the spinners on for a couple of early overs each, allowing you to delay bringing Finn on. At home, we've got three other seamers so it's not much of a problem.

A 6th bowler is pretty important in limited overs cricket because you have to change the plan so often. Bopara is our best bet there right now, though I'm hopeful for Stokes.