Okay, this may be the weakest arguments, particularly the BIB, on CW for a while, I officially give up.
Raina - shown up as a dud in tests cricket.
Conditions had nothing to do with Dhoni's failings with the bat.
Exactly. Most of his dismissals were ridiculous shots around the time of a new ball exposing the tail. Nothing to do with the ball moving loads.
Nothing?
Don't think anyone is writing him off, but there's clearly a massive disparity in his 50 over performances than his Test ones, he's an all-time great in one, and average in another.Nothing?
He has a weakness against the Swinging/Seaming ball and specially when there is extra bounce with Seam movement. He can deal with reverse swing better though, playing it late.
You can say he played bad shots etc..which is partially true as he should have taken time to settle and not played through the line. But that is the way he plays and that is the way he played in the couple of innings he was successful in at Birmingham and has been throughout his career so far(though he charged and improvised more in those innings), except for a certain period when he toured England last time and then Australia and a few series after.
He had a pretty pretty poor series but despite that and all his frailties he was the 3rd highest run scorer for India and also the 4th highest average for India ahead of VVS even and just behind Sachin. Harsh to just write him off just based on that. Let's see how he goes against the West Indies at home, IMO.
While i agree that that Test Match Cricket is the ultimate form of the game, I don't agree with anyone that says that ODI's are meaningless.
Nope, not having that argument for a minute. Dhoni's failings with the bat had nothing to do with conditions. If you're going to insist on trying to muscle the ball through the offside with no foot movement when the bowler at the other end is bowling a fullish length and moving a newish ball a bit off the seam, you're going to spend a lot of time nicking to the cordon. Now, there might be countries where a bowler is more likely to be able to extract that seam movement, but English conditions weren't the factor in Dhoni failing with the bat. Dhoni's failings with the bat were because he's got a fairly shoddy technique, and that coupled with his appalling judgement (which really suprised me because Dhoni's greatest strength in ODIs is judging the situation and playing accordingly) is why Dhoni failed. Conditions had nothing to do with it.Nothing?
He has a weakness against the Swinging/Seaming ball and specially when there is extra bounce with Seam movement. He can deal with reverse swing better though, playing it late.
You can say he played bad shots etc..which is partially true as he should have taken time to settle and not played through the line. But that is the way he plays and that is the way he played in the couple of innings he was successful in at Birmingham and has been throughout his career so far(though he charged and improvised more in those innings), except for a certain period when he toured England last time and then Australia and a few series after.
He had a pretty pretty poor series but despite that and all his frailties he was the 3rd highest run scorer for India and also the 4th highest average for India ahead of VVS even and just behind Sachin. Harsh to just write him off just based on that. Let's see how he goes against the West Indies at home, IMO.
Anderson's most recent ODI performances have been excellent.
Averaging 35 this year, with a economy of 5.6. Last year isn't much better either.
Agreed. (Though would say he is good or above average at least, in wicket keeper terms rather than average in tests)
I agree with all this really, but I was arguing that 20/20 is also a unique game with different stars. My point being you can't write off t20 results whilst luxuriating in ODI success, both inferior games both with different skill-sets. Which has been the whole point of this painful argument. If you agree that Tests are better, how is your turn around comparable anyway. You also need a triple turn-around with T20
I got your point the firsts, but the whole Test Match players can succeed everywhere and nothing else matters "Elitism"(if you can call it that
) which goes on really gets my goat.
Okay, again all limited overs is meaningless for me, including t20, you may call it elitism, I call it being interested in cricket, ya know the original game, not things made for telly. I want a TEST, I want proper tests of courage and technique. Really don't understand this argument at all. BTw we won the test and odi series recently, so you've only drawn level, so that makes little sense TBH.I got your point the firsts, but the whole Test Match players can succeed everywhere and nothing else matters "Elitism"(if you can call it that
AFAIC, T20's have their place too for sure and certainly aren't completely unimportant as some might like to think when it suits them or doesn't. But at the same time don't see ODI's being "meaningless" either and "pointless" as again some would like to think. Where i seem to disagree with you is the clubbing together of T20's and ODI's vs a Test match.
I.e Using your words luxuriating in a Test series Ignoring a ODI series vs Luxuriating in a ODI series ignoring a one of T20 game.
Don't see that much of a difference tbh. Tests>>>>>ODI's>>>>>T20'S for me. In World Cup and other international tournaments, the ODI's obviously gain more importance as more is at stake and same could be said about T20'S perhaps.
Well then there is the point of disagreement. Everybody can pick and choose what is important or not to them as long as it is consistent, but you cannot expect everyone to agree with you on it. And it may vary from country to country too.
Did i mention any series?
Look cevno, Old chap. I argued against an utterly trollish person , the Bang/zim thing showed he wasn't being reasonable, you then hijacked my posts arguing against him and have steered it your way, and I'm not really disagreeing with you on most posts. He was not putting forward a balanced argument, he seems to have been banned now, I really am not sure why you're carrying on his argument.Well then there is the point of disagreement. Everybody can pick and choose what is important or not to them as long as it is consistent, but you cannot expect everyone to agree with you on it.
Did i mention any series?
Was talking in more generic terms there. Could give examples even of the Indian/English teams in other series in that regard but don't really want to go into specifics, as it's besides the larger point.