*Official* England in India

[Prince EWS]

I would say its Swann's fault. With such a pitch, he should have done better.

Probably would've taken six or seven if he playing for India today though; that's the thing.

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

What can I say? I'm speechless. Did say it was 65:35 in favour of India during the lunch break. But I never expected a 95 run walloping and that England would surrender so meekly against spin.

Credit where credit's due. Even as an critic of some aspects of Jadeja's game, I have no qualms in admitting that he's come up leaps and bounds as a player. Especially as a wicket-taking spinner from what I remember of him from a few years back. In conditions like these, he's very valuable for the team and I wouldn't criticise his lack of power batting too much. He's an accumulator, a canny bowler, a brilliant fielder and IMHO, both Yuvraj and he should be a part of this ODI setup. He's earned that spot and can be very happy with where he stands.

M S Dhoni for MOTS. Exemplary batting, the better skipper by country miles and what's more - every single stroke and tactic was executed with style.

More questions than answers for England, but Steve Finn's been brilliant. Samit Patel deserves a decent run in the team. He's a good batsman (fine batting the other day) and should improve in the future. Add to that, his more than useful bowling esp. in such conditions and I don't think this team can afford to not play him enough.

 

[Cabinet96]

I would say its Swann's fault. With such a pitch, he should have done better.

Com'on we know who's fault this really is. Jonathan Trott.

 

[Contra]

Did a job though; you'd hope that in the position he bats he'd be in with either Dhoni or Raina, or failing that, a set batsman. He's capable of quietly scoring a run a ball and turning the strike over to the batsman best placed to hit the big shots.

Oh yeah for sure, but my point is that as a fan, he doesn't give you the feeling that should it come down to a situation where he's the only one left and has to accelerate or take us home, he won't be able to do it. You can only rely on Dhoni and Raina for so much, eventually there will be times where he has to do what they can at the end, which I don't think he can atm. Would personally promote him to #5 before Raina if a wicket falls around the 30th over on wards. And let Raina do the finishing job.

 

[ljinko888]

I would say its Swann's fault. With such a pitch, he should have done better.

Looked as if something was bothering him. Dropped catch perhaps?

Still can't really attach the blame fully on him. We collapsed badly and he looked to use his feet against the spinners which no one apart from the openers really did

 

[Cevno]

Anyone reckon Jadeja might sneak into the Test squad for India's next home series?

Interesting thought.

Don't think so though as playing him would probably mean playing 5 bowlers, and can't see that happening with Dhoni in India, unless it is a real flat wicket somewhere.

Ojha, Mishra and even Ashwin would probably be ahead of him in the proper spinning stakes. Can see Harbhajan getting canned though.

 

[Howe_zat]

Absolute shocker. Didn't think our batting could get much worse against spin in ODIs, but I've been impressively proven wrong.

Well played India. Deserved winners, simply a better one-day side.

I leave you with this from Jarrod Kimber, on the subject of batting collapses.

Anyone who has ever been in a batting collapse knows the pure unimaginable sense of gloom that overcomes the team.

Positive batsmen are stripped of all hope and can do nothing more than March out in a death waltz and wait for their demise.

Each batsman then trudges off the field knowing that their fate was sealed even before they went out there.

The batsman who doesn’t lose his wicket seems to have a face drained of blood as each of his team mates walks back.

There is the look between team mates where they just know they’re in a collapse, and don’t really feel the need to verbally confirm it.

The coach sits there unable to say anything to changes anyone’s mood.

Players waiting to go look almost frightened of facing a spinner or even some middle aged slow seamer.

The tail are defeated before they even step out on the ground.

And you can see the whole team collapse into a liquid mass of utter uselessness right in front of your eyes.

If you’re in the team, you feel like it’s a virus, it just infects your body and you can feel the negative vibes pulsing through you as the collapse gets more violent.

It’s a dark, dark spiral; it feels lonely even though it’s a shared experience.

Often you have no idea how it started, or how to stop it.

The one consolation is that it’s a quick death.

A collapse is over so quickly that by the time you really reflect on it you’ve lost, and it’s like being drunk and trying to decipher some surreal Mexican acid western and trying to work out what just happened.

 

[ganeshran]

Nice attempt.

Attempt at what? Opposing opinion is not trolling.

In a match where spinners took 9 wickets on the trot, Swann should have done better and that is pretty obvious.

 

[Furball]

Oh yeah for sure, but my point is that as a fan, he doesn't give you the feeling that should it come down to a situation where he's the only one left and has to accelerate or take us home, he won't be able to do it. You can only rely on Dhoni and Raina for so much, eventually there will be times where he has to do what they can at the end, which I don't think he can atm. Would personally promote him to #5 before Raina if a wicket falls around the 30th over on wards. And let Raina do the finishing job.

When your top 6 is as ridiculously strong as India's then the amount of times Jadeja will need to do that is minimal though.

 

[Furball]

Attempt at what? Opposing opinion is not trolling.

In a match where spinners took 9 wickets on the trot, Swann should have done better and that is pretty obvious.

2 things:

Swann was bowling at batsmen that can actually play spin.
If you're not trolling, then blaming Swann having watched that batting performance is one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

 

[ganeshran]

The problem with Jadeja is that he loses his head under pressure. Plus he is a really poor runner between wickets

 

[Daemon]

Agree, but in the end it can turn out a bit counter productive too, if the batsman get set against the part timers and then later on with more dew kicking in the bowl turns less.

Happened in one match in England IIRC, but that was more down to the rain(ball getting wet), D/L etc..

True, but then looking at the two worst case scenarios you've got to ask yourself, what's worse? Allowing a partnership to build at 5-6 rpo for a while before they start to open up (and that's when you bring in your regular bowlers), or a situation where you bowl too many overs with your regulars up front and don't get a wicket, then have to watch two set batsmen go after your part timers in perhaps a batting powerplay?

Of course with an all rounder it makes things different but for a while when Yuvraj wasn't h4x I think Dhoni coped with it pretty well. Not to mention the fact that our pacers often don't get bowled out because they're dire.

 

[Contra]

When your top 6 is as ridiculously strong as India's then the amount of times Jadeja will need to do that is minimal though.

Most of our explosive batsmen are missing though, and probably will be in most ODI series. And despite our ODI batting being the strongest in the world, we tend to collapse badly every now and then (WC 2011 the most prominent example). So yes there will be times we need him to hit out, twice in the series we were saved by Magical Dhoni, and twice Jadeja's missed out IMO. I'd just like to see him develop his power game soon, everything else is perfect. Outstanding fielder too, which is a real bonus.

 

[Prince EWS]

Oh yeah for sure, but my point is that as a fan, he doesn't give you the feeling that should it come down to a situation where he's the only one left and has to accelerate or take us home, he won't be able to do it. You can only rely on Dhoni and Raina for so much, eventually there will be times where he has to do what they can at the end, which I don't think he can atm. Would personally promote him to #5 before Raina if a wicket falls around the 30th over on wards.

Yeah I agree. Jadeja's batting could be worth a lot to the team but in his current role he's only going to be of any use in rescue operations. That said, I think he played some pretty rapid innings in the last IPL, so it might be something he's been working on since his last run in the team that we're yet to see.

There's also the matter of what to do when Yuvraj, Sehwag and Tendulkar are all available again. What's India's best ODI team now? If you want Dhoni at 6 and Jadeja at 7 for balance reasons then you have six batsmen vying for five spots - and they're no mugs (Sehwag, Tendulkar, Gambhir, Kohli, Yuvraj and Raina). Might be time for Tendulkar to hang up the ODI boots.

 

[ganeshran]

2 things:

Swann was bowling at batsmen that can actually play spin.
If you're not trolling, then blaming Swann having watched that batting performance is one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

Swann averaged 18 in the ODI series in England against the same batsmen.

Plus being the top ODI bowler, better was expected from him in very spin friendly conditions. I didnt say he is a bad bowler, I said he performed poorly in this match.

 

[ljinko888]

What happened with Dernbach and Jadeja?

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

Oh yeah for sure, but my point is that as a fan, he doesn't give you the feeling that should it come down to a situation where he's the only one left and has to accelerate or take us home, he won't be able to do it. You can only rely on Dhoni and Raina for so much, eventually there will be times where he has to do what they can at the end, which I don't think he can atm. Would personally promote him to #5 before Raina if a wicket falls around the 30th over on wards. And let Raina do the finishing job.

That would make sense. Problem isn't that Jadeja cannot go over the top, but the fact that such an accumulating player needs to be used properly.

At this stage, my best XI would be:

Tendulkar
Gambhir
Kohli
Yuvraj

Jadeja
M S Dhoni * +
Raina

Ashwin
Zaheer
PK
Aaron

The ones on bold are the flexible three in the batting order and can be shuffled depending on the match situation.
With Rahane, Rohit Sharma, Pujara, Yadav, Harbhajan, Mishra and others comprising the bench strength. No more Parthiv Patel in the team or anywhere close to the squad.
Personally, I am an advocate of a judiciously employed rotation policy and all the prospective players must play enough games to groom their skill.

Not sure what Sachin's long term plans are? I am guessing he's still intent on playing ODIs, otherwise Rahane can be given a few more chances.

 

[Prince EWS]

Interesting thought.

Don't think so though as playing him would probably mean playing 5 bowlers, and can't see that happening with Dhoni in India, unless it is a real flat wicket somewhere.

Ojha, Mishra and even Ashwin would probably be ahead of him in the proper spinning stakes. Can see Harbhajan getting canned though.

Yeah I was thinking of the five-bowler option, really. I reckon he might get picked in the squad just to give Dhoni that option at the toss, even though him taking up that option would be unlikely.

 

[Prince EWS]

That would make sense. Problem isn't that Jadeja cannot go over the top, but the fact that such an accumulating player needs to be used properly.

At this stage, my best XI would be:

Tendulkar
Gambhir
Kohli
Yuvraj

Jadeja
M S Dhoni * +
Raina

Ashwin
Zaheer
PK
Aaron

The ones on bold are the flexible three in the batting order and can be shuffled depending on the match situation.
With Rahane, Rohit Sharma, Pujara, Yadav, Harbhajan, Mishra and others comprising the bench strength. No more Parthiv Patel in the team or anywhere close to the squad.
Personally, I am an advocate of a judiciously employed rotation policy and all the prospective players must play enough games to groom their skill.

Not sure what Sachin's long term plans are? I am guessing he's still intent on playing ODIs, otherwise Rahane can be given a few more chances.

Don't see Sehwag being left out at full strength.

 

[ljinko888]

That would make sense. Problem isn't that Jadeja cannot go over the top, but the fact that such an accumulating player needs to be used properly.

At this stage, my best XI would be:

Tendulkar
Gambhir
Kohli
Yuvraj

Jadeja
M S Dhoni * +
Raina

Ashwin
Zaheer
PK
Aaron

The ones on bold are the flexible three in the batting order and can be shuffled depending on the match situation.
With Rahane, Rohit Sharma, Pujara, Yadav, Harbhajan, Mishra and others comprising the bench strength. No more Parthiv Patel in the team or anywhere close to the squad.
Personally, I am an advocate of a judiciously employed rotation policy and all the prospective players must play enough games to groom their skill.

Not sure what Sachin's long term plans are? I am guessing he's still intent on playing ODIs, otherwise Rahane can be given a few more chances.

Think Sehwag will be back. Anyone think Munaf Patel's days are numbered? Certainly on home soil.