*Official* England in India

[Howe_zat]

More to Swann's dropping than "tactics" or my name's Richard Dickinson.

Seen it hinted in a couple of articles some of the squad were less than impressed by what he said in his autobiography & Mike Selvey baldly stated in yesterday's Guardian that he & Patel "aren't believed to be great friends" which is about as close as papers get to saying "they both think the other is a ****".

I thought he was supposed to have been rested?

 

[wpdavid]

Flower's dropping the wrong people then.

Quite so. Mind you, they could change the whole lot and it wouldn't change the fact that we're rediscovering our default standard in these games, which is somewhere around third rate. I couldn't tell you why we've been so abject at the 50-over game for as long as we have, but it's an undeniable fact. Occasional displays of competence n SL and SA a few years ago really are the exception rather than the norm. Nice for India to get a degree of payback for the England tour, but beyond that this is a complete waste of everyone's time. They'd get more of a challenge from Bangladesh afaics.

Thinking about it, maybe someone could pen some thoughts about why we didn't build on those successes in SL and SA, as well as the home win against India in 2007. I know we're missing Broad, Anderson & Morgan, but even so. Doesn't explain the sheer awfulness of those who have played.

 

[ganeshran]

Wasn't watching it but typically these ODI pitches 'seem' spin friendly because they are dry and bite, it's just England bat badly on them vs spin bowling. They're slow enough to let you play spin off the pitch and don't bounce, which makes it very difficult for wrist spinners in particular. Borthwick really tosses it up and bowls slowly, so he has to nail the length spot on ball after ball or he's in trouble - which isn't going to happen for any leg-spinner let alone one that's 21 years old. I guess you need to fire the ball through a little bit, those who follow Indian cricket will know better than me. India's spinners were still firing it through and giving it minimal revolutions when they toured England, which didn't go well for them. As it will barely turn if you bowl like that and it's far easier to play through the line of the ball over here.

I ddint catch the most part of the match either and watched the highlights afterwards but this pitch really had good amount of turn. Both Jadeja (Bairstow dismissal) and Ashwin bowled some really good beauties that beat the batsmen for turn. Thats why it would have been very interesting to see Swann's performance on the track.

 

[ganeshran]

The tests next year would be much more interesting. I dont see India inflicting a whitewash on England but it will be very difficult to beat us at home.

 

[Jacknife]

This has got to be the single biggest load of horse**** ever. I've seen this allegation thrown at me a couple of times now in the last few months, and by the same usual suspects.

Son, I've been there for India during the 2007 WC, our losses against Australia, South Africa, and the likes over the last 5 years. Heck I was there this summer, I was one of the first ones to wish England congratulations after the first couple of wins. Maybe if you weren't banned 95 percent of the time, you'd actually notice.

In fact, this last bit of play is the only time I've actually gotten the time to sit down and post in the entire series. I certainly wasn't here waving my shirt around in the first 3 games, when your team got a can of whoop-ass dished to them.

Now stop being bitter and throwing your toys out of the pram.

Give over mate, you posted what you did to get a reaction and you got one.

 

[honestbharani]

Give over mate, you posted what you did to get a reaction and you got one.

No.. he responded to a **** post in kind.

 

[Jacknife]

I thought he was supposed to have been rested?

It's what I thought, that they rested Swann to let young Borthwick have a go, can't see how he could get dropped for a couple of ordinary performances after how well he's bowled the past couple of years. If I remember correctly he bowled well in the first game as well.

 

[Jacknife]

No.. he responded to a **** post in kind.

Errr no he didn't, this is the one that started it off and the one GF responded to.

Go home England, just go home. This is such a piss-poor performance, no fun at all.

 

[Cevno]

Plenty of such posts around in the England vs India subbie, tbf at that time.

 

[Furball]

Quite so. Mind you, they could change the whole lot and it wouldn't change the fact that we're rediscovering our default standard in these games, which is somewhere around third rate. I couldn't tell you why we've been so abject at the 50-over game for as long as we have, but it's an undeniable fact. Occasional displays of competence n SL and SA a few years ago really are the exception rather than the norm. Nice for India to get a degree of payback for the England tour, but beyond that this is a complete waste of everyone's time. They'd get more of a challenge from Bangladesh afaics.

Thinking about it, maybe someone could pen some thoughts about why we didn't build on those successes in SL and SA, as well as the home win against India in 2007. I know we're missing Broad, Anderson & Morgan, but even so. Doesn't explain the sheer awfulness of those who have played.

Bottom line is that we're a fairly competitive side in our own conditions (we've won a lot of home ODI series in the last 3-4 years, although none aside from our 4-0 thumping of South Africa was dominant) but we struggle away from home.

 

[Quaggas]

Bottom line is that we're a fairly competitive side in our own conditions (we've won a lot of home ODI series in the last 3-4 years, although none aside from our 4-0 thumping of South Africa was dominant) but we struggle away from home.

I am puzzled as to why I don't even remember this.

 

[Jacknife]

I am puzzled as to why I don't even remember this.

I mostly find that one day series after test matches series are pretty much forgettable.

 

[honestbharani]

Plenty of such posts around in the England vs India subbie, tbf at that time.

but don recall me or you or Turb responding like GF..

 

[wpdavid]

Bottom line is that we're a fairly competitive side in our own conditions (we've won a lot of home ODI series in the last 3-4 years, although none aside from our 4-0 thumping of South Africa was dominant) but we struggle away from home.

It's been a mixed bag at home hasn't it? Beat India in 2007 and SA in 2008. Lost to NZ in 2008 though. And didn't Aus absolutely thump us in 2009? Beat all of the SC sides in England in 2010 and 2011 tbf.

Looking back, we had a pretty good spell from the summer of 2007 to the winter of 2009/10, but we've tailed off since then. Not sure why.

 

[Furball]

It's been a mixed bag at home hasn't it? Beat India in 2007 and SA in 2008. Lost to NZ in 2008 though. And didn't Aus absolutely thump us in 2009? Beat all of the SC sides in England in 2010 and 2011 tbf.

Looking back, we had a pretty good spell from the summer of 2007 to the winter of 2009/10, but we've tailed off since then. Not sure why.

Since the 2007 World Cup (this is all from memory so there might be the odd mistake)

West Indies (h) L 1-2 (3)
India (h) W 4-3 (7)
Sri Lanka (a) W 3-2 (5)
New Zealand (a) L 1-4 (5)
New Zealand (h) L 1-3 (5)
South Africa (h) W 4-0 (5)
India (a) L 0-5 (5)
West Indies (a) W 3-2 (5)
West Indies (h) W 3-0 (3)
Australia (h) L 1-6 (7)
Champions Trophy Semi Final (W2 L2)
South Africa (a) W 2-1 (5)
Bangladesh (a) W 3-0 (3)
Bangladesh (h) W 2-1 (3)
Australia (h) W 3-2 (5)
Pakistan (h) W 3-2 (5)
Australia (a) L 1-6 (7)
World Cup Quarter Final (W3 T1 L3)
Sri Lanka (h) W 3-2 (5)
India (h) W 3-0 (5)
India (a) L 0-4 (4)

 

[Jacknife]

Yes, in the last few years since Flower took charge, in bilateral series it's just been the 2 after the Ashes and now this one that we've lost, so even though we haven't dominated many of the series, we have won the majority of them.

 

[Woodster]

Another win for India, fair play, 4-0 and now looking likely to make it 5, yet it doesn't tell us too much we didn't already know. India are very good at one-day cricket in their own conditions. England are a match for anyone at home, but struggle on these very pitches, we cannot combat slow bowling and struggle to look really threatening with the ball.

Obviously a Test series over in India would be a different story and be much more compeititve than this ODI series. We were always going to miss Anderson, Morgan and Broad out there, but it is still good to see the likes of Bairstow, Meaker and Borthwick getting some invaluable experience in these conditions. Obviously without a Test series this time, the whole trip is a little worthless, but if we can develop these younger players some more than at least we can come home with some positives.

 

[ankitj]

Plenty of such posts around in the England vs India subbie, tbf at that time.

Yeah, there were many posts taking pot shots at the Indian team and from Indian fans themselves too. I even created a thread on how Indian should have packed their bags and left on the pretext of the riots in England. Learning a few things about Indian fans' 'sense of humour' and 'acting like adults' (as GIMH liked to say)

 

[ganeshran]

Another win for India, fair play, 4-0 and now looking likely to make it 5, yet it doesn't tell us too much we didn't already know. India are very good at one-day cricket in their own conditions. England are a match for anyone at home, but struggle on these very pitches, we cannot combat slow bowling and struggle to look really threatening with the ball.

Obviously a Test series over in India would be a different story and be much more compeititve than this ODI series. We were always going to miss Anderson, Morgan and Broad out there, but it is still good to see the likes of Bairstow, Meaker and Borthwick getting some invaluable experience in these conditions. Obviously without a Test series this time, the whole trip is a little worthless, but if we can develop these younger players some more than at least we can come home with some positives.

Agree with Broad, but not Anderson. His record in the subcontinent isnt very good. Morgan would have been very handy though

 

[Cevno]

Hopefully Random Patel gets dropped for the last match. Tiwary to come in for him.

Also think Rahul Sharma might get a chance too.