Who was the better bowler: Glenn Mcgrath or Wasim Akram?

[Burgey]

Subtle genius is still genius.

Has anyone seen the footage of a retired McGrath bowling in that T20 All Stars game to Dave Warner when he was miked up, as were Gilchrist and Warne who were behind the stumps?

Words to the effect of..."A couple coming into him... Yep.. Ok... Right, this one is going to deck across him - coming straight to you Warney".

He was wrong, Warner edged it to Gilchrist. It was such a moment to get an insight into how someone in complete control of what they do on a field can take apart decent players.

That doesn't take away from Wasim I should say. I loved him as a cricketer. Maybe my favourite of the past 20 or so years.

 

[vcs]

This wasn't bad from Wasim either.

 

[BlazeDragon]

Subtle genius is still genius.

Has anyone seen the footage of a retired McGrath bowling in that T20 All Stars game to Dave Warner when he was miked up, as were Gilchrist and Warne who were behind the stumps?

Words to the effect of..."A couple coming into him... Yep.. Ok... Right, this one is going to deck across him - coming straight to you Warney".

He was wrong, Warner edged it to Gilchrist. It was such a moment to get an insight into how someone in complete control of what they do on a field can take apart decent players.

That doesn't take away from Wasim I should say. I loved him as a cricketer. Maybe my favourite of the past 20 or so years.

I have never seen this. What match was that?

 

[centurymaker]

McGrath was a perfectionist and a genius.
Toyed with batsmen.

 

[Burgey]

I have never seen this. What match was that?

T20 All Stars game, Gabba 2009

 

[Ikki]

I think McGrath is better and arguably the best of all-time; but it doesn't sit right with me to accept "Wasim wasn't even close".

 

[Son Of Coco]

Subtle genius is still genius.

Has anyone seen the footage of a retired McGrath bowling in that T20 All Stars game to Dave Warner when he was miked up, as were Gilchrist and Warne who were behind the stumps?

Words to the effect of..."A couple coming into him... Yep.. Ok... Right, this one is going to deck across him - coming straight to you Warney".

He was wrong, Warner edged it to Gilchrist. It was such a moment to get an insight into how someone in complete control of what they do on a field can take apart decent players.

That doesn't take away from Wasim I should say. I loved him as a cricketer. Maybe my favourite of the past 20 or so years.

Absolutely brilliant!

And precisely why I find it so annoying when people say McGrath was boring and just bowled on a good length without doing anything. Might as well just say "I have no idea what I'm talking about" (taking personal preference and the right to your own opinion out of the equation of course .)

If you can't enjoy watching a bloke work over a batsman like that then there's not much you can enjoy on a cricket field.

 

[Son Of Coco]

This wasn't bad from Wasim either.

Yeah, very good bowling. Got him out twice in 3 balls. Could watch either of them all day actually, although I didn't get much of a chance to watch Akram all that much. When McGrath and Warne were bowling together you always felt like if you left the lounge you'd miss something. Same goes for Akram (amongst a few others).

I disagree that McGrath is miles ahead of Wasim. I think it's important to take into account other things apart from just the raw numbers as far as wicket-taking goes. Think it's also important to have watched both of them in action and seen exactly what they did during a match.

 

[Burgey]

I think McGrath is better and arguably the best of all-time; but it doesn't sit right with me to accept "Wasim wasn't even close".

^This.

 

[salman85]

This wasn't bad from Wasim either.

That delivery has to be my greatest memory of Wasim, along with those two deliveries in the 1992 final.

Here's another brilliant one :

YouTube - ‪Wasim Akram magic ball to Croft - Incredible‬‏

Sultan Of Swing Indeed.

 

[Blaze 18]

How is it "not even close" ? I really don't understand. We've done this before and, as I said in the other Wasim-McGrath thread, it's bloody close. Wasim Akram was arguably the most talented bowler of the last three decades or so, with the possible exception of Shane Warne.

If I had to pick one for my side, I'd probably go for Glenn McGrath. Only just. The best thing about McGrath was that he could talk smack and back it up. Invariably knocked over the best opposition batsman in big games.

 

[Burgey]

How is it "not even close" ? I really don't understand. We've done this before and, as I said in the other Wasim-McGrath thread, it's bloody close. Wasim Akram was arguably the most talented bowler of the last three decades or so, with the possible exception of Shane Warne.

If I had to pick one for my side, I'd probably go for Glenn McGrath. Only just. The best thing about McGrath was that he could talk smack and back it up. Invariably knocked over the best opposition batsman in big games.

He got most everyone out, everywhere.

 

[Redbacks]

I think McGrath is better and arguably the best of all-time; but it doesn't sit right with me to accept "Wasim wasn't even close".

A good example to back up the point would be:
Usain Bolt is the fastest man of all time, 'Carl lewis in 1988 as Seoul wasn't even close.' Not saying this person wasn't fast, just that at the upper echelon, finer graduations in the 0.5 to 1 %'s count for a heap.

 

[Blaze 18]

He got most everyone out, everywhere.

He most certainly did.

 

[salman85]

How is it "not even close" ? I really don't understand. We've done this before and, as I said in the other Wasim-McGrath thread, it's bloody close. Wasim Akram was arguably the most talented bowler of the last three decades or so, with the possible exception of Shane Warne.

If I had to pick one for my side, I'd probably go for Glenn McGrath. Only just. The best thing about McGrath was that he could talk smack and back it up. Invariably knocked over the best opposition batsman in big games.

If i had an Indian voting ID,and you run for PM,you have my vote.

 

[BlazeDragon]

I just had an Interesting thought. Do you guys think Mcgrath could have could have surpassed Wasim and Waqar in ODI wickets if he had played as many matches?

He has to take 121 wickets in 106 matches to catch up to Wasim. And he has to take 35 wickets in 12 matches to catch up to Waqar. I think he could have easily surpassed Wasim no biggie with that. But Waqar on the other hand would be more of a challenge.

 

[Ikki]

A good example to back up the point would be:
Usain Bolt is the fastest man of all time, 'Carl lewis in 1988 as Seoul wasn't even close.' Not saying this person wasn't fast, just that at the upper echelon, finer graduations in the 0.5 to 1 %'s count for a heap.

I don't think that analogy is a good one because bowling stats aren't as readily comparable as 100m sprint times.

 

[weldone]

I don't think that analogy is a good one because bowling stats aren't as readily comparable as 100m sprint times.

I thought the exact same thing after I saw that Usain Bolt post...was going to post on similar lines, before I came across your reply.

 

[Teja.]

I just had an Interesting thought. Do you guys think Mcgrath could have could have surpassed Wasim and Waqar in ODI wickets if he had played as many matches?

He has to take 121 wickets in 106 matches to catch up to Wasim. And he has to take 35 wickets in 12 matches to catch up to Waqar. I think he could have easily surpassed Wasim no biggie with that. But Waqar on the other hand would be more of a challenge.

Waqar, what a champion.

 

[smash84]

McGrath must take this if you're looking at results. But Wasim's the player I'd rather have in the side, let's put it that way.

This

mcgrath for his consistent perfection.

however, if i wanted to have a person who could come up with some inspired stuff to change the course of a match, it would be akram.

somewhat similar to the way i look at tendulkar and lara.

This

McGrath has an incredibly well-rounded record regardless of venue or opposition, was brilliant against the best opposition batsmen, and always came to the party when it really mattered. I think he only played two full Test series that his team ended up losing (not counting Ashes 2005 where he missed two Tests, perhaps not coincidentally, the ones Australia lost).

This

interesting points about skill and utility crop up. for example, who is a more skilled bowler - the one who can do a few things better than anyone else (for example, landing a ball on a penny everytime and moving it just the right amount over and over again) OR someone who can do many, many different things at the 90th percentile of skill or aptitude?

also, who is more useful for the team? should it only be judged on results? or moments of magic?

You mention a great point

I can only imagine the reputation of Akram will only improve over time due to the availability of footage through YouTube and other video hosting sites. It is easy to be excited by 10 minutes of Akram footage and consider him the greatest of this era. The unfashionable types like McGrath will have to rely on a staggering record and it will be interesting to hear the debates in 20-30 years time.

Yep.

I agree. Especially about the world 11 bit. Perhaps it was the variety factor that did it. Or was it the "have to satisfy the Pakistani fans, especially after not having taken Imran" factor?!

Imran definitely deserved to be in that ATXI. Wasim was not as good a test match bowler as Imran and his batting skills were nowhere close. Imran was arguably the finest bowler of the 1980s. 1980-1988 he took 236 wickets at an avg of 17 in 48 test matches at a SR of 40 odd. His figures were better than any other bowler during that period and the 80s had some of the finest fast bowlers of all time. Wasim definitely did not deserve a place in that ESPN ATXI.

Regarding this debate I would say that if I wanted to watch somebody bowl it would be Wasim but if I wanted a wicket taking bowling machine it would be McGrath. A bit like the Warne-Murali debate I think.

Would have to say McGrath takes this one as much as I hate to vote against Akram