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***Official*** South Africa in England

Should Freddy be included in team for the second Test?


  • Total voters
    44

howardj

International Coach
They've settled on plans to him- they're pitching it up and bowling it on the stumps. Australia have done similar to him in their last few jousts. There's a thought that he's comfortable playing back, but somewhat vulnerable to the fuller, straighter delivery. I think back to Melbourne in 2005 when Lee yorked him, and in the World Cup semi last year when McGrath castled him also.
 

Chubb

International Regular
I know that everyone has already had their say, but the selection of Pattinson was absolutely ****ing insane. It's like something out of the 90s. I can't believe the backlash against the Fletcher policy has led to the press advocating and the selectors themselves implementing a return to a policy that did England no end of harm before 2000. I can't believe it. He looks totally out of place. It's madness. If he ends up taking wickets I will of course retract this statement.
 
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superkingdave

Hall of Fame Member
Seems Jimmy doing well again...ffs appeal though..we could conceivably have had SA 5 down and for mine the game would have nearly been back to level if that had been the case. Really need the other bowlers to step up and stop it being the all Lancashire show.

SA to score about 300 imo
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Whether his reputation outweighs his acheivements can be debated, but it cant be argued that things happen when Flintoff is involved.

It looks a different game with more edge when he is an active participant.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
I know that everyone has already had their say, but the selection of Pattinson was absolutely ****ing insane. It's like something out of the 90s. I can't believe the backlash against the Fletcher policy has led to the press advocating and the selectors themselves implementing a return to a policy that did England no end of harm before 2000. I can't believe it. He looks totally out of place. It's madness. If he ends up taking wickets I will of course retract this statement.
I'm in agreement with this, pretty much. We've played the same side for six tests on the bounce, so the selectors feel the need to make up for it by pulling one out of their arses.

I've nothing against Pattinson (or "Sir Les" as I heard Pat Murphy call him on Five Live yestreday) and he looked impressive in the one game I've seen him bowl in, but even allowing for traditional Headingley "horses-for-courses" picks (Mallender, Watkin, Mike Smith, Kabir Ali & Bicknell have all been plucked from relative obscurity to play test cricket there in recent memory) he's a left-field pick. I haven't seen any play yet, but given Mick only gave him three (expensive) overs I'd guess he doesn't fancy him all that much.

& that's without the effect in could have on Tremlett's confidence, it's not the first time he's been passed over for bowlers who might be considered his inferiors.

As for the batting line-up; sheesh. Threes 8s (well, Fred & Broad are possibly more "seven-and-a-halves", but they ain't 7s) & three 11s in the bottom six? What can you say? All a plot to get Prior back in IMHO. :unsure:
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Wrong interpretation My Learned Friend - you should have examined all the evidence - Richard is an admire of the non wa*ker
No. Nobody likes Graeme Smith. His team-mates, his countrymen, his parents, wife and children don't like Graeme Smith. To the extent that I understand him, I understand that Richard is English. Therefore his professed admiration for GS must be some kind of perverse act. Surely?
I think its just to stimulate debate
I see.

The only problem is, I don't think there's much (or any) debate to be had about the likeability of Graeme Smith.
Well no but someone has to defend him - i think the moderators must have an equivalent of the "cab rank" principal and Richard got the shortest straw (by some distance) :laugh:
From this, and a number of your other posts, I'd guess that you're a lawyer too Fred?
I am the legal affairs spokesperson for the Thames Valley Branch of the Guild of Village Idiots but that is a purely honorary title - straightforward professional idiocy is my favoured occupation

Richard must be out on the lash - cant believe he's let us get away with impugning his good name like this!
That's what I like to call failing to answer the question. It's a straightforward question, Mr Fertang: you're a lawyer aren't you?
:-O Well I cant imagine what gave you that idea :-O

Anyway if we're not careful those moderator people will delete our posts and ban us for irreverency and irrelevance
:laugh: at this.

Yes, I honestly do like Graeme Smith; yes, I am 100% British (though I do often ask the question of whether South Africa are not my favourite cricket team). And no, I wasn't out on the lash last night - rather taking an early night in preparation for being so tonight. :p

Why do I like Graeme Smith? Well, I just liked the skills he showed in compiling those double-centuries, and I liked seeing people try to patronise him for the whole 22-year-old captaincy thing (22 still seemed really old when I was 17 - doesn't now I've reached said age) and seeing him answer in the most crushing way possible, albeit with help from a turned-down lbw appeal and Hussain's infamous drop.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Suprising this coming from a self-proclaimed "Cricket Purist" who rubbishes new forms like 20/20. Tailenders attempting to battle it out and eek out as many runs as possible is part of the test game. If you only like watching bowlers against specialist batsmen, I suggest you watch a 20/20 game.
Nah. In Test cricket you get to see bowlers bowling at batsmen far more than you do in a Twenty20 game. Tailenders battling it out and trying to eke-out as many runs as possible is part of the game, but it's only terribly important later on. In the first-innings of the game, I generally find it very boring.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
He's obviously impressed not only the selectors, but also those he's played against.
Actually, have you played against him, vic? Any thoughts if so? Did he look like a potential test player then?

His rise must be a good advertisment for Melbourne Grade cricket anyway.
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Out of interest Richard,

You were calling Pattinson an Australian and nt English as he was born in the England yet raised in Aus.

However, dont you clasify yourself as Welsh despite being born and living the vast majority (if not all) your life in England?
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Bounced very clearly & he claimed it; it actually bounced up into his hands off the grass. Saw it on the news this AM. Even allowing for my pro-English bias it was quite ordinary.

Haven't seen Mick's yet tho in fairness.
The Vaughan catch was a very different kettle of fish - he probably caught it cleanly, as the replays showed, but there was the inevitable element of doubt created by the foreshortened TV images, so Amla had to be given not out. Vaughan can't be accused of cheating on that evidence.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Haven't been able to watch the series, but have noticed Kallis isn't getting big scores. Is he getting out to good bowling, or does he look a little out of touch?
This game he looked completely out-of-nick. He got two excellent balls at Lord's, but today he was late on several, got edges, played at deliveries he shouldn't have, the ole kaboodle. Strange seeing such a good batsman play so poorly, but it happens from time to time. Imagine it won't last too long.
They've settled on plans to him- they're pitching it up and bowling it on the stumps. Australia have done similar to him in their last few jousts. There's a thought that he's comfortable playing back, but somewhat vulnerable to the fuller, straighter delivery. I think back to Melbourne in 2005 when Lee yorked him, and in the World Cup semi last year when McGrath castled him also.
There's been more than one occasion where Kallis has been out - and when he hasn't - when he's simply failed to pick-up a Yorker right at the start of his innings. I don't know why on Earth that is, and nor do I know why everyone who ever bowls at him doesn't try a Yorker 1st delivery.

Later on he doesn't tend to have much problem with it - the Sidebottom inswinger that got him second dig at Lord's would get most people most occasions - but there have been times when he's fallen for it. EG:
Thought Lee's Bouncer-Bouncer-Yorker to Kallis was in the first dig at Sydney.
Yup, 'twas.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
I'm in agreement with this, pretty much. We've played the same side for six tests on the bounce, so the selectors feel the need to make up for it by pulling one out of their arses.

I've nothing against Pattinson (or "Sir Les" as I heard Pat Murphy call him on Five Live yestreday) and he looked impressive in the one game I've seen him bowl in, but even allowing for traditional Headingley "horses-for-courses" picks (Mallender, Watkin, Mike Smith, Kabir Ali & Bicknell have all been plucked from relative obscurity to play test cricket there in recent memory) he's a left-field pick. I haven't seen any play yet, but given Mick only gave him three (expensive) overs I'd guess he doesn't fancy him all that much.

& that's without the effect in could have on Tremlett's confidence, it's not the first time he's been passed over for bowlers who might be considered his inferiors.

As for the batting line-up; sheesh. Threes 8s (well, Fred & Broad are possibly more "seven-and-a-halves", but they ain't 7s) & three 11s in the bottom six? What can you say? All a plot to get Prior back in IMHO. :unsure:
Doing Fred a disservice IMO. Averages around 32-33, even accounting for his youth when he was ****, he may be in bad form with the bat but he is a Test match seven I reckon. I know you aren't the only one to think this, so expecting some kind of backlash here :p
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Out of interest Richard,

You were calling Pattinson an Australian and nt English as he was born in the England yet raised in Aus.

However, dont you clasify yourself as Welsh despite being born and living the vast majority (if not all) your life in England?
I've always said that being Welsh\English is the same, in essence, as being Yorkshire\Devonian (both of which I could classify as as well). I'm British above all. Britain is one big country with subdivisions, IMO.

The difference between being British and Australian is completely different to that between being English and Welsh. Quite aside from the proximity issues - I've always visited the folks in Wales, generally at intervals of every 3 months or so. As I understand, Pattinson's folks emigrated to Australia. I presume he's come over here during the Australian winter to play club cricket sometimes, though how often I'd not want to guess at, but I don't imagine he'd have seen himself as British in any way until a couple of weeks ago.
 

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