European Union Test Team

[Goughy]

I think you're conflating a political reality with sporting loyalty slightly there; some of the bitterest sporting rivalries are between member states of the EU, so just because the European Union has ultimate responsibility for law making it doesn't necessarily follow people would want to support it or that it needs a team to represnt it.

The other obvious problem would be the fact that a current test nation is part of a country that is an EU member.

No problems. Just exempt England from the team its no issue at all. We are surrounded in life by little exemptions and quirks.

As for sporting loyalty, there is no issue as these teams dont exist at the level we are talking about. Irish or Dutch Test cricket isnt going to happen. They are lucky enough to be part of a strong political organisation that gives them a potential opportunity. Its not like they are being asked to play as EU in Tests instead of Scotland, Denmark etc. Its basically their only option.

 

[Prince EWS]

Pretty sure the rest of Oz would be ok with that tbh.

Queensland particularly; they certainly think of themselves as a separate country when it suits them.

I reckon I'd follow a NSW Test team a lot more passionately than I do the Australian one too. Maybe we've accidently come across a decent idea...

 

[Barney Rubble]

No. Why would it? They are Europeans and obviously covered by European employment law as we all are

I think people are looking too deep into this and mising how simple it is.

Sorry, that was my bad, for some reason I completely ignored the existence of the Kolpak ruling. Have no idea what got into my head there.

Still, my point about Joyce stands, or Eoin Morgan for example, a promising young Irish player who could conceivably reach England standards one day - would Joyce play Tests for the EU but continue to be eligible for England in ODIs, the country for which he is now declared? Or would he go back to having to play for Ireland again? Would Morgan no longer be available for England, even if he had been on the verge of selection when the plan for an EU team was announced?

I just feel like the introduction of a European team would introduce far too many variables in to the process for the ICC to cope with. We all know the ICC are incompetent at best when it comes to carrying out large-scale operations, and I can't help thinking the introduction of a team like this, while in principle a good idea, would end up resulting in all the nations involved doing nothing but treading water for a few years, until the experiment was eventually abandoned.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Some of the bitterest wars in history have been fought between European nations, too. Doesn't stop them all going to Brussels and eating scones or doing whatever they do together.

True, but we don't pay upwards of £50 for a seat to watch them tho.

I'm not arguing against the idea of a European test team, rather the idea that supranational federations form one's sense of sporting loyalties.

 

[Goughy]

Sorry, that was my bad, for some reason I completely ignored the existence of the Kolpak ruling. Have no idea what got into my head there. .

Try again. Bosman, I think, is related to Europeans

 

[BoyBrumby]

No problems. Just exempt England from the team its no issue at all. We are surrounded in life by little exemptions and quirks.

As for sporting loyalty, there is no issue as these teams dont exist at the level we are talking about. Irish or Dutch Test cricket isnt going to happen. They are lucky enough to be part of a strong political organisation that gives them a potential opportunity. Its not like they are being asked to play as EU in Tests instead of Scotland, Denmark etc. Its basically their only option.

I'd imagine that would be illegal given the guarantees of free movement of trade within the EU.

 

[Richard]

Sorry, that was my bad, for some reason I completely ignored the existence of the Kolpak ruling. Have no idea what got into my head there.

Kolpak ruling's nothing to do with the likes of Amjad Khan or Kervezee being able to play in England. That's the EU free employment ruling, whatever that comes under. Same thing that enabled you to work in France without a work-permit not so long ago.

 

[Goughy]

I'd imagine that would be illegal given the guarantees of free movement of trade within the EU.

Dont think it would be for national team consideration.

 

[Richard]

Try again. Bosman, I think, is related to Europeans

Pretty sure the Bosman ruling is purely related to freedom at the end of a player's contract, isn't it?

I've certainly heard it ascertained in some Wisden article or other that the Bosman ruling "did not affect cricket much".

 

[steds]

Actually think setting up an EU Test team would cause more logistical problems than moral ones. It'd need a governing body, First Class competition of its own (about 7/8 players spattered in County Cricket at any one time just won't do) and specialist stadia (cricket grounds are funny shapes) large enough to hold Tests. None of which exist atm.

 

[Goughy]

Actually think setting up an EU Test team would cause more logistical problems than moral ones. It'd need a governing body, First Class competition of its own (about 7/8 players spattered in County Cricket at any one time just won't do) and specialist stadia (cricket grounds are funny shapes) large enough to hold Tests. None of which exist atm.

See Inter Continental Cup.

It already has a FC comp. Would need only the tiniest amount of tweaking
Given there are grounds that have hosted ODIs and World Cup games I dont think stadia are an immediate issue. Im sure they can be upgraded in the future.

 

[Prince EWS]

Dont think it would be for national team consideration.

Yeah, given we have the residency qualification period already, I don't think there'd be too many legal problems re: excluding England players.

 

[Jungle Jumbo]

There would also be the problem with TV rights. I can't see that many home broadcasters wanting to pick the series up if they're played frequently, and lots of broadcasters abroad aren't going to pay to see their side walk over a mishmash of Scots, Irish, Dutch and Slovakians.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Dont think it would be for national team consideration.

If the team was representing the EU I think it would as the law currently stands. All it would take would be a legal challenge from one disgruntled Englishman would couldn't make our test side.

Far simpler to have the team play under a "Europe" banner rather than the EU.

 

[Richard]

Yeah, given we have the residency qualification period already, I don't think there'd be too many legal problems re: excluding England players.

No amount of laws can force players to be eligable for national teams - national teams are not something that can be covered by employment law. Mostly because playing for your country isn't an employment - you're employed by your domestic team (even when you do have a Central Contract).

 

[Jungle Jumbo]

Thinking about it, and in line with what others have said, an England v Rest of Europe series would be a handy replacement for Sri Lanka. Not giving the games Test status or anything, but a couple of four-day games wouldn't be a waste of time.

 

[Goughy]

If the team was representing the EU I think it would as the law currently stands. All it would take would be a legal challenge from one disgruntled Englishman would couldn't make our test side.

Far simpler to have the team play under a "Europe" banner rather than the EU.

If the ECB are not affiliated with the European Union cricket organisation that picked the team then there cant be a problem.

If its members didnt included ECB then England are not under its banner. Ie ECB would not be a member of the EUCA and therefore its players wouldnt be qualified to represent that cricket association.

Not a complicated problem in the slightest. In fact reading the concerns listed here Im further convinced of the simplicity of the project (and this is from someone who looks for roadblocks everywhere)

 

[Barney Rubble]

Kolpak ruling's nothing to do with the likes of Amjad Khan or Kervezee being able to play in England. That's the EU free employment ruling, whatever that comes under. Same thing that enabled you to work in France without a work-permit not so long ago.

Shows my understanding of the law, right there.

 

[Kweek]

I like the Idea...I do , but it won't happen and it's logistical impossible as others have shown and said in this thread, and a lot of freeloaders (hey I have a EU passport, ive never lived there...but hey!) will hop aboard that needs to be stopped...
i'm pretty sure though they wouldn't be good enough to challenge any of the test teams(maybe zimbabwe) to be honest... :-)

 

[BoyBrumby]

If the ECB are not affiliated with the European Union cricket organisation that picked the team then there cant be a problem.

If its members didnt included ECB then England are not under its banner. Ie ECB would not be a member of the EUCA and therefore its players wouldnt be qualified to represent that cricket association.

Not a complicated problem in the slightest. In fact reading the concerns listed here Im further convinced of the simplicity of the project (and this is from someone who looks for roadblocks everywhere)

Ok, fair enough. Suppose one accepts this arbitrary exclusion of English & Welsh players. What you won't be able to stop is any EU player (including those who're English) from playing in a mooted EU first-class competition, so they'd be qualified as resident in 4 years anyway under normal ICC eligibility rules. So it doesn't take a huge leap of imagination to see a solid English pro who's plying his trade for the Dublin Dynamos or Edinburgh Eagles being sounded out about selection for the EU test team and agreeing, only to find, as an Englishman, he has to serve this qualification despite being an EU citizen. Now, given he could earn more money as test player, so it's starting to look not unadjacent to restraint of trade to me. One quick trip to the European Court of Human Rights and the house of cards collapses.