European Union Test Team

[Richard]

No EU court can force an international organisation (ie, I$C$C) to amend their qualification rules.

 

[Prince EWS]

Ok, fair enough. Suppose one accepts this arbitrary exclusion of English & Welsh players. What you won't be able to stop is any EU player (including those who're English) from playing in a mooted EU first-class competition, so they'd be qualified as resident in 4 years anyway under normal ICC eligibility rules. So it doesn't take a huge leap of imagination to see a solid English pro who's plying his trade for the Dublin Dynamos or Edinburgh Eagles being sounded out about selection for the EU test team and agreeing, only to find, as an Englishman, he has to serve this qualification despite being an EU citizen. Now, given he could earn more money as test player, so it's starting to look not unadjacent to restraint of trade to me. One quick trip to the European Court of Human Rights and the house of cards collapses.

Is the opposite not currently true anyway, though? If a Dutchman moved to England and was theoretically selected to play for England after two years, he'd be told he had to wait another two. This is despite the fact that England are part of the EU.

I think this situation escapes the bounds of EU law as it is an ICC law - the ICC are not bound to the laws of the EU. The qualification areas of the cricket team would be set out and the ICC - not the EUCB or whatever they'd be called - would determine who was eligible.

 

[FRAZ]

I am not in the favor of this idea !

 

[Prince EWS]

In the past week or so Ive mentioned the European Union as a Test Team. Players would come from Scotland, Ireland, Netherlands, Denmark etc. Basically the whole of the EU apart from England and Wales which do their own thing in cricketing terms.

They already play the Inter-continental Cup, which could easily translate into a domestic European FC competition.

As mentioned in another thread, this has far more 'national' merit than a West Indies team as the EU is a sovereign political unit.

I have 3 questions-

1) Do you think it is a reasonable idea to give the EU Test status and help grow the game?
2) What would your EU Test XI look like?
3) Help make a list of all European players that have FC experience outside the Inter-continental Cup in order to build an experienced foundation

My EU XI
1 Porterfield (Ire) (Gloucs)
2 Klokker (Den) (Derby, Warwicks)
3 Zuiderant (Neth) (Sussex)
4 Ed Joyce (Ire/Eng) (Mid)
5 ten Doeschate (Neth) (Essex, WP)
6 Morgan (Ire) (Mid)
7 N. O' Brien (Ire) (Kent, North) wkt
8 A. White (Ire) (North)
9 Blain (Scot) (Yorks)
10 Amjad Khan (Den) (Kent)
11 Thomas Hansen (Den) (Hamps)

Denmark with more players in than Scot and Netherlands

Unlucky to missout but have played for a FC county or team in one format or another outside I-C Cup
Brown (Scot) (Warwicks, Eng)
Johnson (Ire) (NSW)
Poonia (Scot) (Warwicks)
Kervezee (Neth) (Worcs)
Rankin (Ire) (Derby)
Hamilton (Scot) (Yorks, Durham, Eng)
Botha (Ire) (Griqua)
McCoubrey (Ire) (Essex)
Bray (Ire) (NSW)
Nel (Scot) (Worcs)
Ollie Rayner (Ger) (Sussex)

Id like to get a list of all current European qualified players that have played for a FC team apart from their nation.

More added

Coetzer (Sco) (WP, Dur)
Patterson (Ire) (Sussex)
Poynter (Ire) (Mid)
Molins (Ire) (OxU)
Johan Malcolm (Den) (LUCCE)

Bryce McGain, Victorian leg-spinner, played a List A game for Denmark a while ago.

 

[pasag]

Have always been in favour of this, it's an excellent idea.

 

[Craig]

My only issue with this is that it wouldn't be a true EU team without England. It'd be "The Rest of the EU" in reality which seems a bit hollow for my liking. If that situation was deemed okay you could have both Queensland and Australia as Test nations in theory.

Pretty sure the rest of Oz would be ok with that tbh.

Queensland particularly; they certainly think of themselves as a separate country when it suits them.

I reckon I'd follow a NSW Test team a lot more passionately than I do the Australian one too. Maybe we've accidently come across a decent idea...

TBF a Queensland Test team would be pretty strong with the likes of Hayden, Watson, Symonds, Noffkee and Johnson

Would be interesting to see how they would go if was as a ODI or T20 match.

 

[chaminda_00]

TBF a Queensland Test team would be pretty strong with the likes of Hayden, Watson, Symonds, Noffkee and Johnson

Would be interesting to see how they would go if was as a ODI or T20 match.

You need more then five players to make an XI. They would get owned hard at Test level. They get owned at FC level. The rest of the team is that crap.

 

[Craig]

You need more then five players to make an XI. They would get owned hard at Test level. They get owned at FC level. The rest of the team is that crap.

Because they got picked for Australia instead. How about 7 or 8 Pura Cup Finals in a row then?

 

[chaminda_00]

Because they got picked for Australia instead. How about 7 or 8 Pura Cup Finals in a row then?

How many matches did Noffke and Watson miss playing for Australia last season? Stop living in the past, if it wasn't SA you would have one worst FC sides in the history of Australian Cricket.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Ryan Broad looks a decent player to be fair.

 

[Craig]

How many matches did Noffke and Watson miss playing for Australia last season? Stop living in the past, if it wasn't SA you would have one worst FC sides in the history of Australian Cricket.

Well TBF when your side has been rocked by injuries then it doesn't help. At full strength QLD are pretty good. Anyway this isn't relevant to this thread and it is impossible to argue with you because if you don't play for NSW then you are ****e.

 

[chaminda_00]

Well TBF when your side has been rocked by injuries then it doesn't help. At full strength QLD are pretty good. Anyway this isn't relevant to this thread and it is impossible to argue with you because if you don't play for NSW then you are ****e.

Well with regard to injuries that what happens when you have heavy relience on 30 odd players and haven't been bring in any younger players into the side to replace those older players when they were away on International duty during their prime.

 

[FRAZ]

Have always been in favour of this, it's an excellent idea.

Pasag man ! If you will take 2-3 good players out of Scotland , Ireland and Netherlands then we will lose three teams but will get one . There are barriers like language ,understanding etc etc . Look how the world elevens have performed in Australia . Until unless the players spend a significant amount of time and play significant amount of games ,only then there is a possibility of getting a good team out of them .

 

[BoyBrumby]

Is the opposite not currently true anyway, though? If a Dutchman moved to England and was theoretically selected to play for England after two years, he'd be told he had to wait another two. This is despite the fact that England are part of the EU.

I think this situation escapes the bounds of EU law as it is an ICC law - the ICC are not bound to the laws of the EU. The qualification areas of the cricket team would be set out and the ICC - not the EUCB or whatever they'd be called - would determine who was eligible.

It's not quite the same situation tho as Dutchmen aren't British citizens (well, the majority aren't) so they aren't nationals of the country. British subjects from Scotland & Northern Ireland don't have to serve a qualification period to play for England, despite being qualified for other associate countries.

The first criterion on the ICC's eligibility list is "A national of the country (as defined by the country)" so as English & Welsh people satisfy this criteria for the EU my reading would be that they do for the ICC too.

Again, I'll say I'm not anti the idea, but I don't think that if it was called the EU team it would be possible legally to exclude Poms. Far better to go for a "Rest of Europe" which, by definition, we aren't nationals of.

 

[Craig]

So if a Dutch cricketer was signed up by a county at an early age and after the time and money spent investing in his talents and declares he would love to play Test cricket for England one day and is at some point considered good enough, he has to wait 4 or 5 years to take out citzenship, and that is it or is there more time to be served?

 

[BoyBrumby]

So if a Dutch cricketer was signed up by a county at an early age and after the time and money spent investing in his talents and declares he would love to play Test cricket for England one day and is at some point considered good enough, he has to wait 4 or 5 years to take out citzenship, and that is it or is there more time to be served?

That seems to be the case, although my reading is that if they've done their four years' residence they don't have to be a citizen:

http://in.yimg.com/icccricket/pdfs/player_eligibility.pdf

 

[pasag]

Pasag man ! If you will take 2-3 good players out of Scotland , Ireland and Netherlands then we will lose three teams but will get one . There are barriers like language ,understanding etc etc . Look how the world elevens have performed in Australia . Until unless the players spend a significant amount of time and play significant amount of games ,only then there is a possibility of getting a good team out of them .

If we would lose three mediocre teams that will in all likelihood never do anything of note on the big stage in the medium term future in exchange of one that could possibly, then I'd be all for it.

 

[Jungle Jumbo]

Bryce McGain, Victorian leg-spinner, played a List A game for Denmark a while ago.

Pretty sure he would have been playing as an overseas player there. That was a game from the C&G Trophy where the rules regarding overseas players also applied to the Minor Counties and associate sides invited to take part. Phil Simmons used to turn out for Wales IIRC. So that's not really the Danish national side, in the same way that the Ireland side that plays in the current FP Trophy isn't really the Irish national side.

 

[Prince EWS]

It's not quite the same situation tho as Dutchmen aren't British citizens (well, the majority aren't) so they aren't nationals of the country. British subjects from Scotland & Northern Ireland don't have to serve a qualification period to play for England, despite being qualified for other associate countries.

The first criterion on the ICC's eligibility list is "A national of the country (as defined by the country)" so as English & Welsh people satisfy this criteria for the EU my reading would be that they do for the ICC too.

Again, I'll say I'm not anti the idea, but I don't think that if it was called the EU team it would be possible legally to exclude Poms. Far better to go for a "Rest of Europe" which, by definition, we aren't nationals of.

The real point I was trying to make was that the ICC did not have to adhere to the laws of the EU. If the ICC decided that, for the purposes of cricket, English cricketers weren't eligible for the EU team, there'd be nothing the EU selectors or indeed even an EU court could do about it.

 

[Prince EWS]

Pretty sure he would have been playing as an overseas player there. That was a game from the C&G Trophy where the rules regarding overseas players also applied to the Minor Counties and associate sides invited to take part. Phil Simmons used to turn out for Wales IIRC. So that's not really the Danish national side, in the same way that the Ireland side that plays in the current FP Trophy isn't really the Irish national side.

Fair enough then. Strange player to get over there though, given he had never played First Class or List A cricket in any form. Stranger still that he batted #4 and scored a half century.