***Official*** India in Australia

[pup11]

"When I saw you I found out sweetheart, that love is mad/crazy sweetheart. Where should I go from here, I'll die in your arms."

Something like that.

As far as ICC handling the situation goes, yes I agree they've done a pretty good job. But yeah the real test is yet to come.

 

[sideshowtim]

Australians suffer from tall poppy syndrome moreso than any other people in the world. The way we've treated our cricket team after what has happened is disgusting.

 

[Evermind]

BBC Sport

Most the replies are by Englishmen, and overwhelmingly critical of the Australian team's bheaviour.

Australian's own sporting heroes, including a former Invincible, say the team needs a long, hard look at itself.

New Zealanders on the issue.

They're even harsher than the English at times.

If Ponting really thinks there's absolutely nothing wrong with the way he and his team have conducted themselves, I feel rather sorry for him. I think it shows an utter lack of introspection and self-questioning.

On the other hand, I think if ICC overturn the ban it's going to set a dangerous precedent. The BCCI is indeed blackmailing the ICC - don't overturn the ban and we go home. It's way OTT and it needs to acknowledge that if its player did something wrong, he deserves to be punished. Don't go down the PCB way, folks - you'll have even lower credibility than you already do. Then again, it's also a dangerous precedent when Procter believes one side's word over the other. I think the 3-match ban is a very courageous decision, and ultimately the right one, but I don't see how it's gonna sit well with the emotionally unstable crowds burning effigies and worshipping cricket idols. What should Procter have done? Thrown out the allegation? But that's a poor precedent too: say whatever you want out of the stump mic's and umpire's earshot, and you can get away with anything. He's in a crap position, Mike Procter.

And ultimately, how does Tendulkar know that Harby is innocent? All he can say is that he didn't hear anything. Harby could've insulted Symonds entire family for all he knows. The best he can claim is that he didn't hear anything - only Harbhajan would know if he is guilty or innocent. The SMS to BCCI was a stupid idea - Tendulkar is using his clout as a respected player to bet on something that he's not certain about. Taking sides simply because of national allegiance isn't the right thing to do.

Although it is not proven, I have little doubt that Harbhajan did say it. For all their poor sportsmanship and hypocrisy, I don't think Ponting's men are out-and-out liars, and they wouldn't dream of making something like that up - it doens't benefit anyone. One can only go on a subjective intuition here, and my gut feeling is that Harbhajan did say it.

 

[Captain Cricket]

Australians suffer from tall poppy syndrome moreso than any other people in the world. The way we've treated our cricket team after what has happened is disgusting.

It's been a very forgettable match in terms of the accusations laid on the Australian team but I think the cricket world should look ahead to the future rather than constantly bringing this up.

 

[pup11]

Australians suffer from tall poppy syndrome moreso than any other people in the world. The way we've treated our cricket team after what has happened is disgusting.

They are Roebuck supporters i guess!

 

[duffer]

BBC Sport

Most the replies are by Englishmen, and overwhelmingly critical of the Australian team's bheaviour.

Australian's own sporting heroes, including a former Invincible, say the team needs a long, hard look at itself.

New Zealanders on the issue.

They're even harsher than the English at times.

Hardly unexpected the repsonse from the English and the Kiwi's.This Aussie team is comfortably the most disliked team in the world right now. Harvey really shouldn't be taken seriously either. He's really earnt his reputation for being a Mr. Rent-a-quote.

 

[pup11]

BBC Sport

Most the replies are by Englishmen, and overwhelmingly critical of the Australian team's bheaviour.

Australian's own sporting heroes, including a former Invincible, say the team needs a long, hard look at itself.

New Zealanders on the issue.

They're even harsher than the English at times.

If Ponting really thinks there's absolutely nothing wrong with the way he and his team have conducted themselves, I feel rather sorry for him. I think it shows an utter lack of introspection and self-questioning.

On the other hand, I think if ICC overturn the ban it's going to set a dangerous precedent. The BCCI is indeed blackmailing the ICC - don't overturn the ban and we go home. It's way OTT and it needs to acknowledge that if its player did something wrong, he deserves to be punished. Don't go down the PCB way, folks - you'll have even lower credibility than you already do. Then again, it's also a dangerous precedent when Procter believes one side's word over the other. I think the 3-match ban is a very courageous decision, and ultimately the right one, but I don't see how it's gonna sit well with the emotionally unstable crowds burning effigies and worshipping cricket idols. What should Procter have done? Thrown out the allegation? But that's a poor precedent too: say whatever you want out of the stump mic's and umpire's earshot, and you can get away with anything. He's in a crap position, Mike Procter.

And ultimately, how does Tendulkar know that Harby is innocent? All he can say is that he didn't hear anything. Harby could've insulted Symonds entire family for all he knows. The best he can claim is that he didn't hear anything - only Harbhajan would know if he is guilty or innocent. The SMS to BCCI was a stupid idea - Tendulkar is using his clout as a respected player to bet on something that he's not certain about. Taking sides simply because of national allegiance isn't the right thing to do.

Although it is not proven, I have little doubt that Harbhajan did say it. For all their poor sportsmanship and hypocrisy, I don't think Ponting's men are out-and-out liars, and they wouldn't dream of making something like that up - it doens't benefit anyone. One can only go on a subjective intuition here, and my gut feeling is that Harbhajan did say it.

Here we go again, i mean there is so much venom and bad blood for the Australian team around the world and its all coming out now courtesy this controversy, critics around the world don't often get much to criticise about Australia's cricket because they are so bloody consistent, so whenever they get a chance they make sure they atleast blast them for their on-field behaviour.
They might show a bit of aggro in the field but don't tell me the other teams don't do the same, teams like India and Pakistan abuse in their own languages and invariabily get away with it because the officials or opposition players don't understand what they said.
Presenting Australia as the game's all-time worst team (on-field conduct wise) is really not on, its not like the other teams are full of saints or something, sledging is a global issue and just not restricted to the Australian side, and btw just to expose the double-standards of Roebuck and ****ing lunatic critics like him around the world, weren't they the same people who questioned Australia's lack of aggression on-field against England during Ashes 05 and termed it as the prime reason for them losing the Ashes!

 

[pup11]

Hardly unexpected the repsonse from the English and the Kiwi's.This Aussie team is comfortably the most disliked team in the world right now. Harvey really shouldn't be taken seriously either. He's really earnt his reputation for being a Mr. Rent-a-quote.

And........... that dislike is not the result of them caring much about what happened with India, its just the frustration that they suffer from due to losses that they have suffered at the hands of the Australian cricket team.

 

[honestbharani]

BBC Sport

Most the replies are by Englishmen, and overwhelmingly critical of the Australian team's bheaviour.

Australian's own sporting heroes, including a former Invincible, say the team needs a long, hard look at itself.

New Zealanders on the issue.

They're even harsher than the English at times.

If Ponting really thinks there's absolutely nothing wrong with the way he and his team have conducted themselves, I feel rather sorry for him. I think it shows an utter lack of introspection and self-questioning.

On the other hand, I think if ICC overturn the ban it's going to set a dangerous precedent. The BCCI is indeed blackmailing the ICC - don't overturn the ban and we go home. It's way OTT and it needs to acknowledge that if its player did something wrong, he deserves to be punished. Don't go down the PCB way, folks - you'll have even lower credibility than you already do. Then again, it's also a dangerous precedent when Procter believes one side's word over the other. I think the 3-match ban is a very courageous decision, and ultimately the right one, but I don't see how it's gonna sit well with the emotionally unstable crowds burning effigies and worshipping cricket idols. What should Procter have done? Thrown out the allegation? But that's a poor precedent too: say whatever you want out of the stump mic's and umpire's earshot, and you can get away with anything. He's in a crap position, Mike Procter.

And ultimately, how does Tendulkar know that Harby is innocent? All he can say is that he didn't hear anything. Harby could've insulted Symonds entire family for all he knows. The best he can claim is that he didn't hear anything - only Harbhajan would know if he is guilty or innocent. The SMS to BCCI was a stupid idea - Tendulkar is using his clout as a respected player to bet on something that he's not certain about. Taking sides simply because of national allegiance isn't the right thing to do.

Although it is not proven, I have little doubt that Harbhajan did say it. For all their poor sportsmanship and hypocrisy, I don't think Ponting's men are out-and-out liars, and they wouldn't dream of making something like that up - it doens't benefit anyone. One can only go on a subjective intuition here, and my gut feeling is that Harbhajan did say it.

I agree with most of your points here, but the same reasons for which you believe Aussies can be used by us to believe the Indians... That is where the problem lies and that is the reason why the 3 match ban is a stupid idea... If he was just fined and warned, and told that he is being let off easily because of lack of sufficient evidence, I don't think such a big reaction would have ensued. And btw, Sachin was near him for most of the footage, and given that we are talking about insults here, I am sure Harbhajan wasn't exactly whispering and therefore, Sachin would probably have known what was said....

 

[pup11]

I am not sure what the EXACT definition of racism is and I don't want to get into a semantics battle again...


For me, racism meant the sort practiced in America and other parts of the world, when darker skinned people were kept out of society and were treated in unbelievably inhuman ways in preference to lighter skinned people... Such stuff never happened in India. In fact, even though there is a general preference for fair skin, esp. when it comes to defining a girl's beauty, there have been more than enough instances of people thinking that darker complexion is just as, if not more, beautiful than a fairer complexion. Two diff. situations, methinks...

Discrimination of any sorts is disgusting, whether you call it racism or castism it hardly makes any difference, and what makes you say that such stuff never happened in India, the lower castes were always treated inhumanly by higher castes of the society and just because it is called castism doesn't make the whole situation any better,does it!

 

[pup11]

I agree with most of your points here, but the same reasons for which you believe Aussies can be used by us to believe the Indians... That is where the problem lies and that is the reason why the 3 match ban is a stupid idea... If he was just fined and warned, and told that he is being let off easily because of lack of sufficient evidence, I don't think such a big reaction would have ensued. And btw, Sachin was near him for most of the footage, and given that we are talking about insults here, I am sure Harbhajan wasn't exactly whispering and therefore, Sachin would probably have known what was said....

Mate why would Sachin testify in favour of Symonds over his team-mate even if he's guilty, i am not saying Sachin isn't honest or anything like that but isn't it just normal to support your team-mate even if he has done something wrong.

 

[cameeel]

Hardly unexpected the repsonse from the English and the Kiwi's.This Aussie team is comfortably the most disliked team in the world right now. Harvey really shouldn't be taken seriously either. He's really earnt his reputation for being a Mr. Rent-a-quote.

Awta, he and Keith Stackpole

 

[Tony]

Fined and warned

I agree with most of your points here, but the same reasons for which you believe Aussies can be used by us to believe the Indians... That is where the problem lies and that is the reason why the 3 match ban is a stupid idea... If he was just fined and warned, and told that he is being let off easily because of lack of sufficient evidence, I don't think such a big reaction would have ensued. And btw, Sachin was near him for most of the footage, and given that we are talking about insults here, I am sure Harbhajan wasn't exactly whispering and therefore, Sachin would probably have known what was said....

Agreed.

The sort it out in the meeting between match refs, officials and captains before the next test - so they can air their grievances in the right setting

 

[honestbharani]

Discrimination of any sorts is disgusting, whether you call it racism or castism it hardly makes any difference, and what makes you say that such stuff never happened in India, the lower castes were always treated inhumanly by higher castes of the society and just because it is called castism doesn't make the whole situation any better,does it!

I never tried to justify casteism in India... But racism didn't exist, plain and simple, the way I define racism, at least....


And casteism, whether you like it or not, is different from racism... They are both forms of discrimination but they are not the same. And you being in India should know very well that "monkey" is tossed around quite often but the word "bastard" is considered extremely extremely provocative... I reckon it is quite the opposite in Australia, and this is why things need to be set in black and white regarding sledging, racial abuse and personal abuse....


Of course, Harbhajan must have known fully well that "monkey" is a racially offensive word in Symonds' dictionary and should have never said it, assuming he has said it. And in that case, he should be punished for his stupidity alone, even if he didn't in fact mean it in a racist way....

 

[honestbharani]

[/B]
Mate why would Sachin testify in favour of Symonds over his team-mate even if he's guilty, i am not saying Sachin isn't honest or anything like that but isn't it just normal to support your team-mate even if he has done something wrong.

yeah, but the Aussies maybe doing the same thing... Ponting or whoever it was who lodged the complaint might have made a mistake comprehending what was said, but instead of accepting that his team mates were wrong, he may be backing them to the hilt, the same as what you are accusing Sachin of doing..

 

[vic_orthdox]

not really... Many ppl will find personal abuse just as bad or even worse than racial abuse... And again, ONLY the victim's PoV matters in such instances, as Matt79 pointed out...

Where did I use the term "personal abuse". Personal abuse does not equal sledging.

 

[pup11]

yeah, but the Aussies maybe doing the same thing... Ponting or whoever it was who lodged the complaint might have made a mistake comprehending what was said, but instead of accepting that his team mates were wrong, he may be backing them to the hilt, the same as what you are accusing Sachin of doing..

Yeah i agree and that's why i condone Procter's decision which he probably made on just the word of five Aussie players, that sort of decision hardly makes any sense in my book.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Can't be bothered going back to search for the direct quote, honestbharani, but it isn't simply Tendulkar's word versus Ponting's. It was three of them testifying to have heard the comment, from memory.

Agree with the poster whom said that a fine may have been the better option, although would this have been possible? It may be (not sure) that the minimum penalty might have been matches?

Also, I thought it was Chris Broad who made that comment about treating Australians and subcontinent teams differently with regards to sledging, but that is just from memory. May well be wrong.

 

[pup11]

I never tried to justify casteism in India... But racism didn't exist, plain and simple, the way I define racism, at least....


And casteism, whether you like it or not, is different from racism... They are both forms of discrimination but they are not the same. And you being in India should know very well that "monkey" is tossed around quite often but the word "bastard" is considered extremely extremely provocative... I reckon it is quite the opposite in Australia, and this is why things need to be set in black and white regarding sledging, racial abuse and personal abuse....


Of course, Harbhajan must have known fully well that "monkey" is a racially offensive word in Symonds' dictionary and should have never said it, assuming he has said it. And in that case, he should be punished for his stupidity alone, even if he didn't in fact mean it in a racist way....

Yeah fair enough, as far as the word monkey or bastard being tossed around in the Indian society is concerned then i have my own views on that, say if one of my friend says "you lucky bastard" (it might be in connection to anything, like me getting lucky with a gal or something like that) then i won't find it offensive, but if a mere stranger calls me either "monkey" or "bastard" i would be offended for sure.

 

[honestbharani]

Where did I use the term "personal abuse". Personal abuse does not equal sledging.

it seems to, in most people's books though...


This is again a question of semantics, though. If, in your view, sledging is just the plain old banter and not personal abuse, then it is fair enough. I agree with that.