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Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
It depends whether Zimbabwe were able to field a full strength XI or not. I think they'd be competitive, for sure, and would be amongst the better teams.
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Intercontinental Cup, 2007
- Thread starter stumpski
- Start date
Are you referring to this match ? I don't see why that Zimbabwe A-team (who, btw, won the match by five wickets) should be considered the best side Zimbabwe could produce.
Kenya's performances in the Logan cup this year (albeit Kenya was without Tikolo, Odoyo, and Ongondo), I think, were some good indicatives how far behind associate countries are in the longer version.
Odhiambo is an allrounder ??? Oh, well, you know your team better.
Luseno's raw pace was apparently not that effective on a Gymkhana pitch (I hope he will change that fact in the second innings).
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Chemosit
First Class Debutant
They were the best Zim could produce at the time and that is exactly the reason why they should prove themselves against the Associates first. It is no use to them if they have umpteen great players who will not turn out for them due to the situation in the country. They must be measured by the team they put on the park and at the moment that team is not much stronger than the top Associates. If they play in the IC and dominate, then by all means allow them to go back to Tests, but I can't see it happening.
chaminda_00
Hall of Fame Member
How was that their best side possiable, when it was clearly an A side. Really the fact that Kenya didn't win a match in the Logan Cup, just shows how poor their depth really is.
Chemosit
First Class Debutant
No - I said Odhiambo is being groomed as an all rounder. Big difference. He needs the exposure at first class to test whether or not that is a realistic role. Personally, i would be happier to see him selected for and concentrate on his bowling.
Luseno looked good this morning - beat the bat several times, but was taken off after only 3 overs. Not sure why when he was causing trouble and not conceding many (3-2-5-0). Possibly an injury?
On a pitch that has runs in it anyway, why pick more batsmen when you need to bowl the opposition out twice?
TikoBestAssoPla
Cricket Spectator
That was very much the A team 
Zim were without Taylor*, williams, Chigumbura, Sibanda, Taibu*, Utseya, Brent, Matsikenyeri, Mpofu, Mupariwa. Kenya has a long way to go 
Zim were without Taylor*, williams, Chigumbura, Sibanda, Taibu*, Utseya, Brent, Matsikenyeri, Mpofu, Mupariwa. Kenya has a long way to go
Chemosit
First Class Debutant
Zimbabwe have consistently lost the best players available to them due to the political/social/etc situation in the country. They could have put a stronger team out, and so could Kenya, but neither side by much at the time. I'm not suggesting that Kenya are as good as them, just that we are not that much worse. Playing in the IC would both give Zim regular cricket and a chance to prove they are significantly better than the others.
regards Kenya's less than ordinary performances in that tournament, I thought it showed more how much in need of first class experience Kenya are rather than a lack of depth, though that is a problem any Associate faces, Kenya included. Kenya were in winning positions several times, but lacked the experience to follow through rather than the talent to do so.
andruid
Cricketer Of The Year
Well I have to agree with chemosit on Nehemiah Odhiambo. His bowling has been a bit rank of late as his average has fallen nay plummeted the last six months and it would be good if he asorted that out first before even thinking about his batting
back to the game and Canada have just lost their last wicket for 229 setting Kenya 100 to win the match. Trawling though the commentary on Cricinfo I have noticed that Mauirice Ouma has had abit of trouble judging the pace of Luseno and some of Nehemiah Odhiambo's faster deliveries as he has concede bye where the ball has bounced beneath his gloves and through him to the boundary.
back to the game and Canada have just lost their last wicket for 229 setting Kenya 100 to win the match. Trawling though the commentary on Cricinfo I have noticed that Mauirice Ouma has had abit of trouble judging the pace of Luseno and some of Nehemiah Odhiambo's faster deliveries as he has concede bye where the ball has bounced beneath his gloves and through him to the boundary.
Nick, however you want to look at it, I think Logan Cup clearly showed that Zimbabwean youngsters are far better equipped for the longer version of cricket than Kenyan youngsters are. Kenya (and other associate countries who I believe are at the same level with Kenya) has a quite a way to go before she can challenge Zimbabwe in this format.
Chemosit
First Class Debutant
I agree they are better equipped, but it is because they play the longer game domestically, not because of the talent available. With more longer games being played by the Associates, it won't be long at the current rate before the Associates are better. I also think that with the continued ebb and flow of players in the national team, Zimbabwe are closer to top Associate level than Test level. I would be very surprised if Zimbabwe were able to completely dominate Ireland, Kenya or Scotland away from home as even a side like Bangladesh should at the longer version of the game. Consider also that Zim are not looking like getting any Test cricket in a hurry, they may as well play in the IC, so at least their players keep playing competitive first class games.
chaminda_00
Hall of Fame Member
The thing is due to large exdous majority of those guys in the FC sides for Zimbabwe had played little FC cricket themselves and would have had the same experience level in that form as Kenyan players. Really the Logan Cup showed the gap between Zimbabwe and Kenya at that level. Really the Zimbabwe players would probably get as much out of playing in their own domestic comp, where more guys have get experience playing FC cricket. The having only a select few play in the IC.
If Kenya played more FC matches it would help bridge the gap. But the big problem I see for Kenya is well the lack talent coming through. In most of these IC matches since they started. Its been the experienced players that seem to be carrying the Kenya side. The inexperience and so called talented guys have been doing a great deal in these matches. There is the odd talented players coming through, as most teams at this level produce. But their are a lot more guys who seem to be long way behind most players from Ireland, Scotland, Holland etc. One feels when Tikolo and Odoyo retire what they will have left to keep them competitive.
If Kenya played more FC matches it would help bridge the gap. But the big problem I see for Kenya is well the lack talent coming through. In most of these IC matches since they started. Its been the experienced players that seem to be carrying the Kenya side. The inexperience and so called talented guys have been doing a great deal in these matches. There is the odd talented players coming through, as most teams at this level produce. But their are a lot more guys who seem to be long way behind most players from Ireland, Scotland, Holland etc. One feels when Tikolo and Odoyo retire what they will have left to keep them competitive.
Chemosit
First Class Debutant
I don't think Kenya are going too badly with bringing youngsters through. Mishra, Obanda, Varaiya and Otieno have all looked good so far and there are a decent crop of U19 players who could turn into good national team players with the right coaching and development.
The top First Class batting stats so far for Kenya in 2007 (players ages in brackets):
Batsman..........Innings..........Avg.....50s.....100s
T Odoyo(29)..........3.............85.00.....1.........1
CO Obuya(26)......13............39.33......1........2
T Mishra(20).........14............35.00.....3.........0
A Obanda(19).......16............31.00.....3.........1
MA Ouma(24).......14............28.69.....2.........1
DO Obuya(28)......15.............27.80.....0........1
S Tikolo(36)...........3............ 24.67.....0.........0
AO Suji(31)..........10.............19.70.....1.........0
The First Class bowling stats so far in 2007:
Bowler.................WICKETS......AVERAGE
HA Varaiya(23)..........26..............23.58
N Odhiambo(24)........20...............19.70
AS Luseno(25)...........11..............32.27
JK Kamande(28)........11...............44.82
CO Obuya(26).............9...............28.22
PJ Ongondo(30)...........5...............40.80
S Tikolo(36).................4...............12.75
T Odoyo(29).................3...............23.67
RL Bhudia(22)..............3...............53.33
Maybe nothing to set the World alight, but certainly plenty to be optimistic about. Also most players with the exception of perhaps Tikolo, Onyango, Suji and Ongondo will probably be around for another 5 years or so (maybe even include a couple I just mentioned), which is ample time to bring through one or two new players each year.
The top First Class batting stats so far for Kenya in 2007 (players ages in brackets):
Batsman..........Innings..........Avg.....50s.....100s
T Odoyo(29)..........3.............85.00.....1.........1
CO Obuya(26)......13............39.33......1........2
T Mishra(20).........14............35.00.....3.........0
A Obanda(19).......16............31.00.....3.........1
MA Ouma(24).......14............28.69.....2.........1
DO Obuya(28)......15.............27.80.....0........1
S Tikolo(36)...........3............ 24.67.....0.........0
AO Suji(31)..........10.............19.70.....1.........0
The First Class bowling stats so far in 2007:
Bowler.................WICKETS......AVERAGE
HA Varaiya(23)..........26..............23.58
N Odhiambo(24)........20...............19.70
AS Luseno(25)...........11..............32.27
JK Kamande(28)........11...............44.82
CO Obuya(26).............9...............28.22
PJ Ongondo(30)...........5...............40.80
S Tikolo(36).................4...............12.75
T Odoyo(29).................3...............23.67
RL Bhudia(22)..............3...............53.33
Maybe nothing to set the World alight, but certainly plenty to be optimistic about. Also most players with the exception of perhaps Tikolo, Onyango, Suji and Ongondo will probably be around for another 5 years or so (maybe even include a couple I just mentioned), which is ample time to bring through one or two new players each year.
On a second thought, I am not against the idea of a challenger series (FC) between the IC champion (currently Ireland) and Zimbabwe, may be on a neutral venue, say South Africa, to see where Zim stands in FC cricket in comparison to associate countries (however I still don't see the point ICC sending Zimbabwe to Bermuda and Canada to play four day matches against their national sides). Arranging one such series should not cost ICC that much.
On a related note, Ireland will tour Bangladesh next March-April where they will play two four-day matches (besides 4-5 ODIs) against Bangladesh A-team/Academy team. We can then compare Ireland's performances in those match with Zimbabwe's performances against Bangladesh-A in December last year (although that was a weakened Zim team) .
On a related note, Ireland will tour Bangladesh next March-April where they will play two four-day matches (besides 4-5 ODIs) against Bangladesh A-team/Academy team. We can then compare Ireland's performances in those match with Zimbabwe's performances against Bangladesh-A in December last year (although that was a weakened Zim team) .
Namibia vs Canada, 25-28 Oct, at Windhoek
After Day 1 -
Namibia 314/6, 96 Overs (Bjorn Kotze 87*, Nicholaas Scholtz 64, Tobias Verwey 49*; Durand Soraine 3/54)
After Day 1 -
Namibia 314/6, 96 Overs (Bjorn Kotze 87*, Nicholaas Scholtz 64, Tobias Verwey 49*; Durand Soraine 3/54)
Chemosit
First Class Debutant
Strong fightback by Namibia there - First class experience in the SA domestic comp paying off!
On a separate note, it seems ridiculous to me that the ICC are yet to release the rest of the fixtures for this tournament. We are almost at the end of the year and certainly for Kenya and Namibia there should be the chance of hosting matches in their warm seasons early next year.
Surely it would be in everyone's interests for the fixtures to be released so the boards can plan properly for 2008.
On a separate note, it seems ridiculous to me that the ICC are yet to release the rest of the fixtures for this tournament. We are almost at the end of the year and certainly for Kenya and Namibia there should be the chance of hosting matches in their warm seasons early next year.
Surely it would be in everyone's interests for the fixtures to be released so the boards can plan properly for 2008.
Magrat Garlick
Global Moderator
I have a nasty feeling it's not going to come through. I guess the problem is to find money for each trip and have that assured before the fixture list is announced.