World Crickets speed demons

[vandemataram]

Kaneria have taken wkts in Australia and India but only after conceding 100 + runs!! He certianly haven't destroyed any team, except for Bang.

 

[vandemataram]

, or perhaps Pathan from those who are calling him the best pacer in the world already.

McGrath is the best, Pathan is the best upcomming pacer.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

McGrath is the best, Pathan is the best upcomming pacer.

He's probably the most exciting talent around yes, but he's not proven yet and some people like to pretend that he is.

 

[Richard]

You seem to have this deficiency in judging players where you refuse to acknowledge that they are any good until they've already proven it time and again, and even in some cases you refuse to do it then (eg: McGrath).

Of course someone has to prove their quality time and again to be judged good - what kind of a statement is that?! That's not a deficiency at all! Jesus, if someone becomes a good player the second they play 1 good innings or put in 1 good bowling spell then everyone in The World is equally good!
The majority of cricket followers have a deficiency where they're keen to make everything look as good as possible and as a result tend to call people good before they end-up being so. And sometimes call rubbish players good ones.

Kaneria is undoubtedly a top quality leg spinner, and if he keeps bowling the way he is now he will have a great career. The fact that his average doesn't yet reflect how well he has been bowling doesn't mean much.

No, he undoubtedly has the potential to be one. He isn't one at the moment, and he does still have a bit of work to do on his game (ie he needs to spin it a bit more). His average (35.33) accurately reflects that he's not been anything special so far - it takes him a lot of overs to get his wickets (SR 72) and his economy-rate is merely good rather than outstanding, hence a high average.
But anyone who's seen him bowl can tell quite clearly that he could be a very good bowler indeed, and Mushtaq in reverse is a possibility.

He's currently in the second leg of the two toughest places to bowl spin after all, and he's given a decent account of himself so far - against Australia's reasonably proficient batting lineup against spin on flat wickets and against India's awesome players of spin on turning wickets.

Australia's reasonably proficient line-up against spin? Langer, Ponting and Gilchrist all have glaring deficiencies against the turning ball, and Hayden has been nowhere near as good against it of late as he always used to be. Martyn and Katich are now good against spin (and Katich, of course, didn't play so he was no use). Lehmann, brilliant as he is, has been in woeful touch recently.
Yes, Kaneria has given a reasonable account of himself, but he hasn't done that well at the end of the day - and until he does, he can't be considered a particularly extraordinary player.

 

[Richard]

He's probably the most exciting talent around yes, but he's not proven yet and some people like to pretend that he is.

I beg to differ, I feel Shabbir Ahmed, though not young, is a far more exciting talent.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Australia's reasonably proficient line-up against spin? Langer, Ponting and Gilchrist all have glaring deficiencies against the turning ball, and Hayden has been nowhere near as good against it of late as he always used to be. Martyn and Katich are now good against spin (and Katich, of course, didn't play so he was no use). Lehmann, brilliant as he is, has been in woeful touch recently.
Yes, Kaneria has given a reasonable account of himself, but he hasn't done that well at the end of the day - and until he does, he can't be considered a particularly extraordinary player.

Australia's problems with spin are somewhat overblown because they seem to struggle somewhat against it compared to against pace, but really they do pretty well. Aside from India and Sri Lanka, Australia are the best players of spin around. South Africa, England, the West Indies and New Zealand are all inferior and have been shown as such time after time, against the likes of Warne and Murali, and others in the subcontinent. Pakistan also play spin with less assurance than most of the Australians. Ponting obviously struggles and has only succeeded against quality spin bowling on a couple of occasions. Gilchrist and Langer have problems, but they have both played brilliant innings in the face of quality spin bowling before. In particular Langer, who I never rated against spin until I saw him play an absolutely magnificent knock in Sri Lanka against Murali and company last year on a big turner. He tends to look uncomfortable a lot more than he actually fails. Gilchrist always plays the same way, and is vulnerable early in his innings against good bowling of any sort. When he is at his best however he is one of the toughest batsmen in the world to bowl to, regardless of who you are. And Hayden, Martyn, Katich and Clarke are all high quality players of spin, as was Lehmann.

No doubt Australia CAN be hurt by good spin bowling, but I would back them to succeed against it more often than anybody else excluding India and Sri Lanka, and in fact Sri Lanka have struggled mightily against Warne, given that he has a better average in that country than Murali himself does.

 

[Richard]

Of course Sri Lanka have strugged against Warne - that's because he actually tends to bowl well against them, rather than going to pieces like he usually does against India. Anyone will struggle against Warne if he gets it right.
And yes, Langer and Gilchrist have both played exceptional innings against spin, but they have failed more often than not against it (not surprising - they're WAns). Martyn and Katich used, of course, to be exactly the same but they've made huge strides in the last 2 years, Katich presumably being helped by moving to NSW.

 

[marc71178]

Good heavens - I'm so confused. Whose argument should I respect more - Richard's or Chris Cairns'?

Can someone help me out?

Well Chris Cairns has played a lot of Cricket games under a lot of different circumstances and has faced a lot of the people of which he talks.

But on the other hand Richard has read a lot of reports and caught the odd highlight here and there.

It is a tough one though, I agree.

 

[Swervy]

Well Chris Cairns has played a lot of Cricket games under a lot of different circumstances and has faced a lot of the people of which he talks.

But on the other hand Richard has read a lot of reports and caught the odd highlight here and there.

It is a tough one though, I agree.

its not that tough..how can anyone argue with someone who thinks the Pakistani team of 1999 was one of the all time great teams???? That shows incredible insight

 

[aussie]

aussie

I beg to differ, I feel Shabbir Ahmed, though not young, is a far more exciting talent.

u gotta be kidding richard

 

[aussie]

aussie

[QUOTE=FaaipDeOiad
No doubt Australia CAN be hurt by good spin bowling, but I would back them to succeed against it more often than anybody else excluding India and Sri Lanka, and in fact Sri Lanka have struggled mightily against Warne, given that he has a better average in that country than Murali himself does.

I dunno faaip, u sure warne has a better than murali in sri lanka. Warne has played 8 test in sri lanka and has taken around 30 plus wickets with 26 coming in the last tour while murali has tonnes of wickets at home and i think he averages less tha 20 per wicket, so i dunno how accurate that statment is mate

 

[Kippax]

Sami vs NZ: 14 wickets at 35.07
Sami vs The Rest: 36 wickets at 52.41
The real killer is this:
Sami vs NZ: 2 devestating spells in 8
Sami vs The Rest: 2 better-than-terrible spells in 26

There are very few in the 145+ bracket who haven't relished playing NZ in the last 5 years it seems.

I'm looking forward to seeing a jilted Brett Lee with an autumnal gale behind him in Wellington, if the Aussies decide to go that way.

B Lee - 32 test wickets @ 20.8
A Donald - 11 @ 17.7
M Ngam - 2 @ 17
M Sami - 14 @ 35.1
S Ahktar - 17 @ 5.2
S Harmison - 21 @ 22.1

 

[vandemataram]

I beg to differ, I feel Shabbir Ahmed, though not young, is a far more exciting talent.

Shabbir better than Irfan Pathan .

 

[Scallywag]

Shabbir better than Irfan Pathan .

Pathan is a very poor test bowler who has not performed at test level.

 

[GladiatrsInBlue]

I beg to differ, I feel Shabbir Ahmed, though not young, is a far more exciting talent.

You mean to say the guy with the dodgy action, who has spent more time with professors in WA university and doctors than on Cricket field??

IKP is a far superior cricketer than the one you mentioned.

 

[GladiatrsInBlue]

Pathan is a very poor test bowler who has not performed at test level.

Whatt??? He played extremely well in the very first test series in Australia, he rocked Pakistan in Pakistan and have reduced their dependable batter (youhanna) to a very ordinary batsman. And he destroyed Bangladesh in few sessions.

The guy is great, there is no better cricket talent in the world than IKP.

 

[chaminda_00]

Whatt??? He played extremely well in the very first test series in Australia, he rocked Pakistan in Pakistan and have reduced their dependable batter (youhanna) to a very ordinary batsman. And he destroyed Bangladesh in few sessions.

The guy is great, there is no better cricket talent in the world than IKP.

I agree with u he has talent, IMO he and M Clarke are two best talents in the world, but Pathan and Clarke still have to prove themselves somewhat.

If u take out performs aganist Bangladesh he averages 41.8, here is a break down of all team his played:
Australia: 6 wkts @ 72.3
Ban: 18 @ 11.9
Pak: 15 @ 32
RSA: 3 @ 29.7

The guys only played a 11 games so im sure his stats will improve, but u have to except that some people don't rate him yet.

 

[social]

Pathan and Clarke are cricketers with 10 years of international cricket ahead of them.

They both have great talent.

They are unlikely to be consistent for some time.

Leave them alone and let them make their own mark on the game.

 

[chaminda_00]

Pathan and Clarke are cricketers with 10 years of international cricket ahead of them.

They both have great talent.

They are unlikely to be consistent for some time.

Leave them alone and let them make their own mark on the game.

When did i have ago at either of them, i just said u can't call them greats yet like some others have.

 

[twctopcat]

If Shabbir can get his back sorted and iron out the technique side i think he can be a great success in the mould of pollock/mcgrath who are in short supply in world cricket. Whether Pathan is the next Wasim remains to be seen but i can see a line and length bowlers like Shabbir suceeding more over someone like Pathan.