Windies squad for the VB Series

[garage flower]

Marshall - too young and raw.
Morton blew his chance twice before. You may say it's not fair, people change. Life's not fair. If a person "changes" whilst in prison, they're not going to release him because it's not fair for him to be imprisonated.

I don't have full details on Morton's "indiscretions", but as far as I'm concerned he's served his time. He wouldn't be the only Windies player of recent vintage to display a bad attitude (think of Garner's comments re behaviour on the last "A" tour) even if he took it further than most.

I seem to remember reading that he's had some counselling and so if, under the close scrutiny of King et al in the camp, his attitude's been fine, I see no non-cricketing reason to exclude him.

With regard to Marshall, the old adage of "if he's good enough he's old enough" applies. There are not the same injury risks that would apply to young fast bowlers to consider and he'd probably only play 1 or 2 games.

 

[Richard]

I don't have full details on Morton's "indiscretions", but as far as I'm concerned he's served his time. He wouldn't be the only Windies player of recent vintage to display a bad attitude (think of Garner's comments re behaviour on the last "A" tour) even if he took it further than most.

Interestingly, the worst offenders - Benn, Best - don't appear to have made too much reform.
The only one from that tour to have made a real impression is Bravo - and I'm sorry, I can't ever see him having been anything but a dedicated, hardworking cricketer.

 

[Arrow]

Gayle, W Hinds, Lara, Sarwan, Chanderpaul, Powell, Bravo, Browne,

Sometimes i forget just how much firepower the windies have.I hope they are all in good form this summer because with the brilliant but unpredicable pakistanis we could be set for a classic series.
Lara always performs well in this series, and i still remember his brilliant 116* at the scg in 2001.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

With regard to Marshall, the old adage of "if he's good enough he's old enough" applies. There are not the same injury risks that would apply to young fast bowlers to consider and he'd probably only play 1 or 2 games.

Would he really benefit more from 1 or 2 ODIs or a full season of FC cricket though? That's the real consideration.

 

[roseboy64]

Marshall shouldn't be selected.Powell can be used as an opener if necessary or Chanderpaul even.I want to see him play but he's only had one seson of regional cricket.If he continues then select him but not now.

 

[marc71178]

Especially bowlers like Dharmasena, Utseya - the last thing you want to do is waste them by bowling them in the last 10 or first 15.

Why is it a waste?

If Utseya is really *that* good, then surely he should bowl at the death, because we all know that the death overs mean nothing if good bowlers are on

 

[Richard]

And we also know that certain bowlers are best utilised at certain stages.
Gayle is a "death" spinner; Utseya is much best used in the 16-35 over stages.
There are different skills required to bowl at different stages of one-day innings.

 

[Richard]

Sometimes i forget just how much firepower the windies have.

It's easy to forget.
They've built - relatively quietly and unnoticed - a thoroughly competant ODI side, one that I'd not hesitate to say are more than capable of competing with anyone.
As I've said before, there are plenty of worse attacks than Dillon, Bradshaw, Collymore, Bravo, Gayle; a batting line-up of Gayle, X (no, that's not a pun on Xavier), W. Hinds, Lara, Sarwan, Chanderpaul, R. Powell (the one weak link), Bravo, Browne, Bradshaw is certainly not to be sniffed at.
I'd prefer see a specialist opener in there, myself (definately not Devon Smith, and I certainly see Liam's points WR Marshall) rather than have Wavell Hinds or Chanderpaul opening.
I also think Dwayne Smith has potential as an all-rounder (nonetheless his one-day form recently has been horrible) in the ODI game, and if he can add just a touch of sense to his batting, while controlling his front-foot with his bowling, I'd get him back in the ODI side in place of Powell, who I've never made any secret of the fact I don't rate at all - and he's been playing for a long, long time now.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Richard speaks the truth. Few spinner bowlers can bowl at the death. In fact, even the likes of Pollock struggles these days at the death. It's an art.

Utseya may or may not be the best bowler in Zimbabwe, but one thing is for certain - he has a defined role and carries it out admirably.

 

[Don]

browne may have helped win the iccct but i just dont like the man.
RICHARD i agree with u on powell.He needs to sit back and find something to do in trinidad until we ge fed up of him and chuck his **** back to jamaica.
marshall should not make the squad and if he does let him carry the bags.dont just drop international cricket in him just yet at least 1 more season of FC would do.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I'd prefer see a specialist opener in there, myself (definately not Devon Smith, and I certainly see Liam's points WR Marshall) rather than have Wavell Hinds or Chanderpaul opening.

Devon Smith is a far better opener than he's shown at ODI level. He doesn't play like he does at domestic level unfortunately. Regarding Chanderpaul, he's had most of his success opening the batting. As for Hinds, he's in such amazing form at the top of the order (192 runs in 2 innings) that I can all but guarantee he'll open the batting in the first match. Consider also that his last two innings against Australia have been unbeaten hundreds opening the batting.

I also think Dwayne Smith has potential as an all-rounder (nonetheless his one-day form recently has been horrible) in the ODI game, and if he can add just a touch of sense to his batting, while controlling his front-foot with his bowling, I'd get him back in the ODI side in place of Powell, who I've never made any secret of the fact I don't rate at all - and he's been playing for a long, long time now.

Dwayne Smith's every form has been horrible. He was awful for Barbados and got sacked for the last couple of games. Re: Powell, IMO he's better than some. With the strength of the West Indian batting lineup he can certainly play a role of hitting out late in the innings in 3 of every 4 or so ODIs. It's that 4th ODI when he has to build an innings that gets him.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

He needs to sit back and find something to do in trinidad until we ge fed up of him and chuck his **** back to jamaica.

It's sad to say that he outperformed most of our homegrown batsmen in the Carib Cup this year then.

 

[Richard]

In fact, even the likes of Pollock struggles these days at the death. It's an art.

As far back as 1999\2000, in fact, he was being hammered around by Ealham, Read, Streak in the Standard Bank Tri-Series.
I always preferred Donald and Kallis at the death myself (Donald, of course, didn't play in that Series I refer to above).
IMO Pollock is much best used for 7 or 8 off the reel and 2 or 3 sometime in the 30-40 over period

Utseya may or may not be the best bowler in Zimbabwe, but one thing is for certain - he has a defined role and carries it out admirably.

Do you - personally - think Panyangara and Hondo are better?

 

[marc71178]

Gayle is a "death" spinner; Utseya is much best used in the 16-35 over stages.
There are different skills required to bowl at different stages of one-day innings.

Which shows exactly why he's not as good as you make out - if he were a good bowler, he'd bowl at the end of the innings and keep it down there.

 

[Richard]

Devon Smith is a far better opener than he's shown at ODI level. He doesn't play like he does at domestic level unfortunately. Regarding Chanderpaul, he's had most of his success opening the batting. As for Hinds, he's in such amazing form at the top of the order (192 runs in 2 innings) that I can all but guarantee he'll open the batting in the first match. Consider also that his last two innings against Australia have been unbeaten hundreds opening the batting.

True, I should have mentioned Hinds' all-but certainty to open the batting. I rather meant more medium-term he's best utilised at three.
Chanderpaul is rather another Tendulkar for me - yes, his average (and maybe SR too?) is best at the top of the order but he's one of a few rounded players who can play a number of roles. Therefore he's best to bat in the position that can make best use of his versatility.
Devon Smith's domestic-one-day record is even worse than his ODI-record, isn't it?

 

[Richard]

Which shows exactly why he's not as good as you make out - if he were a good bowler, he'd bowl at the end of the innings and keep it down there.

Why?
Why does a bowler have to bowl at the death to be good?
There are good bowlers at each stage, and yes, being able to bowl economically at the death is a special art, but equally being unable to do so is no disgrace.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Devon Smith's domestic-one-day record is even worse than his ODI-record, isn't it?

Not many WI players have good domestic one-day records. Very few.
I was more referring to his style of play in general at domestic level though. Not just in limited overs.

 

[Richard]

Well I've never seen him play in any one-day games except the u19s in 2001 (and, obviously, the NWS last year).
Just looking at his Test-game, it's easy to make the assumption that he's too boundary-reliant for ODIs.
The domestic records of most of the first-team (Lara, Gayle, Chanderpaul, Bradshaw, etc.) aren't too bad.
But yes, I've cast my eye around across the surface and the problem is similar to in England - it's totally baffling how there can be so few batsmen with good averages... and yet so few bowlers with good economy-rates!
It just doesn't make any sense.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

The domestic records of most of the first-team (Lara, Gayle, Chanderpaul, Bradshaw, etc.) aren't too bad.

Aside from being a class above, Lara and Chanderpaul have played a substantial amount of ODI cricket, which is incorporated in the List-A average. Most West Indian players tend to perform above their domestic average when they graduate to ODI level. Brian Lara's ODI average if 42.27 and List-A is 40.37.

Ian Bradshaw and Chris Gayle are exceptions, in that they had good domestic success prior to their callups.

 

[Craig]

Marshall - too young and raw.
Morton blew his chance twice before. You may say it's not fair, people change. Life's not fair. If a person "changes" whilst in prison, they're not going to release him because it's not fair for him to be imprisonated.

If Morton has been in prison means he has a criminal record which would probably mean the Australian Government won't let him into Australia.